I Got Snagged By the NJ Div of Taxation.... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ngdawg · 08-23-2007, 11:36 AM

.....for buying cigarettes..
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
They sent a letter and statement covering every purchase from "Buy Cheap Cigarettes" and are billing me $262.20-almost the same amount as what I'd spent!
I don't HAVE $262....
Are they getting their lessons from RIAA???
Is there a shred of recourse for this? I thought these purchases were from a reservation-being sovereign, they can not be taxed nor can they be audited, as apparently this is how I was found.
Has anyone else ever been snagged for taxes from online purchases?
I'm pissed.....

Glory's Sun · 08-23-2007, 11:46 AM

well.. I really have no basis to go on..but I'm assuming they are saying since you live in NJ and they were shipped to you..you owe taxes. Had you bought them from the reservation directly..you wouldn't have the letter. :shrug: no idea really just a guess.

Jinn · 08-23-2007, 11:47 AM

I don't see how they could, unless "Buy Cheap Cigarettes" is also in NJ. State-to-state transactions online do not typically pay sales tax unless the buyer resides in the same state as the seller.

Glory's Sun · 08-23-2007, 11:49 AM

and wow..they aren't that cheap.. I get a carton of camels for $25 bucks here..

from their website;

Quote:

As part of the Seneca Nation of Indians and the Iroquois Confederacy, Buy Cheap Cigarettes is currently not required to collect state sales tax for products sold on Native land. Nonetheless, we are required under federal law to report all sales and shipments of cigarettes to the state taxing authority within your home state. You should contact the taxing authority within your state to determine your tax obligation on the use of these products within your state. LINKS TO STATES TAX DEPARTMENTS

ngdawg · 08-23-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

and wow..they aren't that cheap.. I get a carton of camels for $25 bucks here..

from their website;

Gary's are cheap-about $26 or so, mine are around $32, then add shipping, so I stopped buying from them and buy from what I know is a reservation for a little less.
I'm thinking of calling those people and finding out what the fuck is going on....
I also am of the mind that this smacks of extortion on the part of the state. A "buy from us or else" stance that just makes my neck stiffen.
I also think that statement is bullshit as I've been buying from another reservation for over two years and never got anything from the state before this.

Glory's Sun · 08-23-2007, 11:58 AM

I'm just telling you what the website says..

According to NJ taxation committee, if there is no NJ stamp on the smokes, then the wholesaler or distributor has to pay the taxes. If they don't then the consumer has to do so. Every state taxes smokes, they get money from that tax so it really only makes sense that you would have to pay in accordance with that law.

It never hurts to call though. They might help you out or something. ?

MSD · 08-23-2007, 01:31 PM

If you buy something out of state and don't pay taxes in your home state, you're supposed to list it on your state return and pay as if you bought it in state.

ubertuber · 08-23-2007, 01:57 PM

Not to mention, if your argument is that the reservation is sovereign, then surely you paid import duties.

maleficent · 08-23-2007, 01:59 PM

the state of new york used to send "reminders" to it's residents who shopped at the enterprise zones in elizabeth new jersey (Ikea and those other stores) that they did owe the taxes paid on those goods they bought.

the state of taxachussetts, i mean massachussetts, used to flag it's residents who would go over the state line to the sales tax free state of new hampshire (especially to the package store that was right over the state line) and "remind" it's residents that they did owe those taxes.

ngdawg · 08-23-2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

I'm just telling you what the website says..

According to NJ taxation committee, if there is no NJ stamp on the smokes, then the wholesaler or distributor has to pay the taxes. If they don't then the consumer has to do so. Every state taxes smokes, they get money from that tax so it really only makes sense that you would have to pay in accordance with that law.

It never hurts to call though. They might help you out or something. ?

Or it might be in 'discussion'. About a year or two ago, Elliot Spitzer, then the NY state AG, was trying to get the reservations to pay the taxes on their cigarette sales because (at least then), they weren't giving up their customer lists to enable the state to collect that way. He failed. So, now it seems they found a way to get them to hand over those records...
The statement we received lists sales dating back to 05 from just the one place. If this is the precursor-we're sunk; we buy 2 cartons a week.

Glory's Sun · 08-23-2007, 02:22 PM

well.. there's always the option of smoking less.. or not at all.

Or just find a way to make more $$.

ngdawg · 08-23-2007, 02:46 PM

I thought about making more money....but no one will pay me for that

Working on that quitting thing, but they're over $7 a pack in NJ, at even less than a pack a day, they're cheaper from the reservations...or they were until today.
The place we get them from now has no tax disclaimer on its site; in fact, it boasts being 'tax free'.
Guess I'll be sending money to a southern connection again....and working more on that quitting.

thingstodo · 08-23-2007, 03:13 PM

I've heard many states are beginning to do this to chase down extra revenue on cig sales. You've basically got no recourse but to pay. If not, they tag on interest and late fees and will eventually get you through no car tags, reduction in state income tax refunds or just a garnishment on your wages. Pretty much ike all tax situations. They can't yet collect revenue from internet sales when the company has no offices/sales outlets in your state. That doesn't include tobaco and alcohol.

shakran · 08-23-2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

I thought about making more money....but no one will pay me for that

Working on that quitting thing, but they're over $7 a pack in NJ, at even less than a pack a day, they're cheaper from the reservations...or they were until today.
The place we get them from now has no tax disclaimer on its site; in fact, it boasts being 'tax free'.
Guess I'll be sending money to a southern connection again....and working more on that quitting.

You might have an out then. If they claim to be tax free, then they are misleading you. You might be able to get the money out of them because of that.

ngdawg · 08-23-2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

You might have an out then. If they claim to be tax free, then they are misleading you. You might be able to get the money out of them because of that.

Yea, but they're not on this statement. Should another one arrive-and I have no doubt one will-then I might be able to do something. This statement covers 2005-2006 from just one place. Granted, I used the second one during the same time; I'm just wondering what the gig is-are they volunteering customer info or did they get audited or what? And there's no address or town (and I have no receipts saved), but I think they're in NY state.

Ironic bit of NJ info: We get 'property tax rebates' each fall. The amounts vary, based on your property tax bill. Yet every year, the state senate screams about the budget; the first act of our newest governor was to raise the sales tax from 6% to 7%. We have the lowest gasoline prices in the nation, despite not being selfserve and we have two major toll roads and umpteen toll bridges. Yet, whenever they start their "no money!" screams, the first thing they hit is cigarettes. If NJ placed just 1c more on a gallon of gas, they wouldn't be discussing "selling" the New Jersey Turnpike.
My liable amount is $271 and they're billing me $262. I can't imagine what others have gotten hit with and I really fear the next one if they get any info from the second supplier.

alicat · 08-24-2007, 07:27 AM

ngdawg, I'm too lazy to find the thread I started in early '05 but we got socked with the same thing from the State of Michigan. I know the $262 hurts but our bill was almost $2,400.

We'd been buying from a company called "Dirt Cheap" cigarettes in NY and were paying $10 a carton. Our lovely Governer Granholm

and the state of MI charged us $20 a carton in taxes.

Sorry to say but even though it only lists the one site on your bill, expect to recieve bills from any other site eventually. We got another a few months later from another site for $400, thankfully we didn't buy much from them before we got taxed and started rolling our own.

The best news I can give you is that we applied for and were approved for a 24 month re-payment plan. We were paying $101 a month and once the portion under my name was paid, we are down to hubbies $66 a month with only a $300 balance. Your $262 would be very managable if NJ offers that option. You should be able to find info. and the forms on your state governments website. Hope that helps.

By the way, when we got socked, we thought about buying through a reservation thinking they were protected from disclosure. Then we found out a co-worker of hubbies, whose family of 4 all smoked and ordered from a reservation, got sent a bill in excess of $10,000. That changed our minds right quick.

MexicanOnABike · 08-24-2007, 07:53 AM

step 1. don't smoke.
step 2. profit.

Sion · 08-24-2007, 09:41 AM

taxation without (competent) representation

08-23-2007, 11:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	I Got Snagged By the NJ Div of Taxation.... .....for buying cigarettes.. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr They sent a letter and statement covering every purchase from "Buy Cheap Cigarettes" and are billing me $262.20-almost the same amount as what I'd spent! I don't HAVE $262.... Are they getting their lessons from RIAA??? Is there a shred of recourse for this? I thought these purchases were from a reservation-being sovereign, they can not be taxed nor can they be audited, as apparently this is how I was found. Has anyone else ever been snagged for taxes from online purchases? I'm pissed..... __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em. Last edited by ngdawg; 08-23-2007 at 02:08 PM.. Reason: me speeling sukcs

08-23-2007, 11:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	I don't see how they could, unless "Buy Cheap Cigarettes" is also in NJ. State-to-state transactions online do not typically pay sales tax unless the buyer resides in the same state as the seller. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

08-23-2007, 01:57 PM	#8 (permalink)
ubertuber spudly Location: Ellay	Not to mention, if your argument is that the reservation is sovereign, then surely you paid import duties. __________________ Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

08-23-2007, 01:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	the state of new york used to send "reminders" to it's residents who shopped at the enterprise zones in elizabeth new jersey (Ikea and those other stores) that they did owe the taxes paid on those goods they bought. the state of taxachussetts, i mean massachussetts, used to flag it's residents who would go over the state line to the sales tax free state of new hampshire (especially to the package store that was right over the state line) and "remind" it's residents that they did owe those taxes. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

08-23-2007, 02:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	I thought about making more money....but no one will pay me for that Working on that quitting thing, but they're over $7 a pack in NJ, at even less than a pack a day, they're cheaper from the reservations...or they were until today. The place we get them from now has no tax disclaimer on its site; in fact, it boasts being 'tax free'. Guess I'll be sending money to a southern connection again....and working more on that quitting. __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

08-23-2007, 11:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	well.. I really have no basis to go on..but I'm assuming they are saying since you live in NJ and they were shipped to you..you owe taxes. Had you bought them from the reservation directly..you wouldn't have the letter. :shrug: no idea really just a guess.

08-23-2007, 11:58 AM	#6 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	I'm just telling you what the website says.. According to NJ taxation committee, if there is no NJ stamp on the smokes, then the wholesaler or distributor has to pay the taxes. If they don't then the consumer has to do so. Every state taxes smokes, they get money from that tax so it really only makes sense that you would have to pay in accordance with that law. It never hurts to call though. They might help you out or something. ?

08-23-2007, 01:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	If you buy something out of state and don't pay taxes in your home state, you're supposed to list it on your state return and pay as if you bought it in state.

08-23-2007, 02:22 PM	#11 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	well.. there's always the option of smoking less.. or not at all. Or just find a way to make more $$.

08-23-2007, 03:13 PM	#13 (permalink)
thingstodo A Storm Is Coming Location: The Great White North	I've heard many states are beginning to do this to chase down extra revenue on cig sales. You've basically got no recourse but to pay. If not, they tag on interest and late fees and will eventually get you through no car tags, reduction in state income tax refunds or just a garnishment on your wages. Pretty much ike all tax situations. They can't yet collect revenue from internet sales when the company has no offices/sales outlets in your state. That doesn't include tobaco and alcohol. __________________ If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves. Stangers have the best candy.

08-24-2007, 07:27 AM	#16 (permalink)
alicat Baffled Location: West Michigan	ngdawg, I'm too lazy to find the thread I started in early '05 but we got socked with the same thing from the State of Michigan. I know the $262 hurts but our bill was almost $2,400. We'd been buying from a company called "Dirt Cheap" cigarettes in NY and were paying $10 a carton. Our lovely Governer Granholm and the state of MI charged us $20 a carton in taxes. Sorry to say but even though it only lists the one site on your bill, expect to recieve bills from any other site eventually. We got another a few months later from another site for $400, thankfully we didn't buy much from them before we got taxed and started rolling our own. The best news I can give you is that we applied for and were approved for a 24 month re-payment plan. We were paying $101 a month and once the portion under my name was paid, we are down to hubbies $66 a month with only a $300 balance. Your $262 would be very managable if NJ offers that option. You should be able to find info. and the forms on your state governments website. Hope that helps. By the way, when we got socked, we thought about buying through a reservation thinking they were protected from disclosure. Then we found out a co-worker of hubbies, whose family of 4 all smoked and ordered from a reservation, got sent a bill in excess of $10,000. That changed our minds right quick. __________________ 'Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun, The frumious Bandersnatch!'--Jabberwocky, Lewis Carroll "You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late."--Ralph Waldo Emerson

08-24-2007, 07:53 AM	#17 (permalink)
MexicanOnABike Location: up north	step 1. don't smoke. step 2. profit. __________________ - Movie Reviews - Ratings-

08-24-2007, 09:41 AM	#18 (permalink)
Sion Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.	taxation without (competent) representation __________________ He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...