Why are non-Jews flocking to Jdate.com? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Xazy · 05-22-2007, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Going Gentile Into That Good Night
Why are non-Jews flocking to Jdate.com?
by Lynn Harris
May 22, 2007

Some of Tony's best friends are Jews. His most significant boyfriend was too, he says. So when his Jewish friend Jessica said, "You can date all the WASPs you want, but you're not going to find someone who'll talk about his feelings or be willing to analyze them," Tony, a New Yorker of non-Jewish Italian descent, found himself posting a profile on JDate.com, "the premier Jewish singles community on the Net."

No avid J-suitor will be shocked to find Tony's profile (which makes clear that he's not Jewish) among the "BlueeyedJew"s and "BagelBoy"s who are both members of the site and members of the tribe. Non-Jews in search of Jews — gay and straight, male and female — have become commonplace on JDate. The percentage of JDate's 650,000 members identifying themselves as religiously "unaffiliated" is now 13% and rising. (Caveat: that designation also includes Jews who don't align themselves with a particular Jewish movement, e.g. Reform or Conservative.) JDate has not gone so far as to add check-boxes for religions other than Jewish — it'd be philosophically tricky — but non-Jews have reached at least one measure of critical mass: the site has added the option of designating oneself "Willing to convert." At this point, it's entirely possible that JDate could bring together two Gentiles. ("It's kismet! We're both into film noir, snowboarding and Jews.")

JDate spokesperson Gail Laguna says she's heard no complaints about non-Jews using the site and that no serious thought has been given to excluding them. (More conservative Jewish dating sites do.) "The site is designed for Jewish singles — there's no way to make that clearer," she says. "We just want to make sure everyone has the tools they need to represent themselves openly and honestly."

Sure, there are a few wise guys, like the fellow who befuddled my friend Abby by saying "Like everyone, I'm a little bit Jewish," or the one who outright lied to my friend Monica that he was a Reform Jew. (Then again, he also failed to mention that he was living in Nigeria.) But in general, the non-Jews on JDate are not shy. Click around a bit, and you'll easily find member profiles declaring "I AM NOT JEWISH!!!" or "I am Roman Catholic, but ..." or simply "ILIKEBACON."

Which begs the question: what are these people doing on JDate? And whatever it is, is it good for the Jews?

For one thing, JDate has a good reputation — and, when it comes to dating and marriage, so do the Jews. Especially men. My non-Jewish friend Laura registered after a work friend said, "If I were single, I'd be on JDate. That's where all the best guys are."

Sure enough, women's profiles confessing a "soft spot for Jewish men" tend to describe them with terms like "family-oriented," "devoted," and "mother." "Jewish men are perceived as mensches, and mensches make the best marriage material," says dating expert Robin Gorman Newman, founder of LoveCoach.com and author of How to Marry a Mensch, adding that of course these are perceptions, if not stereotypes, with plenty of exceptions. "Of course, just because you had a bar mitzvah doesn't mean you're a mensch. Or not a wack-job."

One California woman I spoke to — who was raised Hindu — said that for her, joining JDate was about what she saw as the menschiness of Jewish culture in general, plus the shared background of ancient civilizations and, more recently, the immigrant experience. "From my experience with Jewish friends and a Jewish boyfriend, I feel that we have similar value systems, an emphasis on community activism and education. One of the things that also struck me about Jewish culture is the significance of women in the family. For us, it's more complicated."

And the appeal of Jewish women to non-Jewish men? That's trickier to get at. On the topic of stereotypes, the non-Jewish men trawling JDate, as you may have guessed, do not write things like, "ISO whiny, frigid Rhonda Weiss/Sookie Sapperstein who'll let me hold her purse while she shops." Rather, they seem to come from the some-of-my-best-friends/girlfriends school. ("Maybe it's because I went to good schools and work on Wall Street," one guy suggests in his profile.) Many mention an affinity for their view of Jewish culture: "very tight-knit;" "the food is great." Another fellow told me, "I really like Jewish people," citing, among other things, the Jews' "great sense of humor," which he finds similar to that of his own Eastern European kin.

"My gut would tell me that the men there don't care that much about whether a woman is Jewish," says Robin Gorman Newman. Her hunch: for them, it's less about aiming for Jews, more about casting as wide a dating net as possible. Which, by the way, isn't necessarily a bad approach. JDating can be a good strategy for non-Jews, she says, as long as they're honest about their intentions — particularly with themselves. "Some people are at a loss as to why they're still single," she says, so it's very tempting to turn to magical, rabbit's-foot thinking. "Instead of trying to evaluate any bad choices you might be making, it's easier to say something like, 'Dating someone Jewish is the answer.'"

Whatever the particulars — or psychology — of the attraction, there's also a sense that it's a little trendy to date Jews. "A generation ago, one of the reasons intermarriage rates were low was that non-Jews weren't interested in marrying Jews," notes Dr. Kerry Olitzky, executive director of The Jewish Outreach Institute, which works to bring Judaism to interfaith families and the unaffiliated. But today, there are books like What To Do When You're Dating a Jew: Everything You Need to Know From Matzah Balls to Marriage (which I haven't read), and Boy Vey: The Shiksa's Guide to Dating Jewish Men (which I wish I hadn't, because no one should ever have to read a sentence like "To find a Shiksa with a hilariously high-maintenance mixture of strength and prowess is an utter utopia for the libidinous Jew.") More to the point, I guarantee you that in my immigrant grandfather's day, before the Jews made their way to Harvard and Shaker Heights, you would not have heard a Jewish man called — to cite from Boy Vey! — a "Hebrew honey" or, God help us, "Mr. Tall, Dark, and Circumcised."

So Jews are in. But what about Judaism? Many of the non-J JDaters I encountered indicated a willingness to convert and/or raise Jewish children "for the right person." But for others — despite evidence among young people of a growing interest in the real God stuff of religion — interest in Judaism as a faith was often intellectual at most. "I am much more interested in Judaism as the cradle for some of the most transforming thinkers of the last couple of centuries — Freud, Marx, Einstein," the Eastern European guy told me. We're big fans of Jews and Jewish "culture," several said, but of "organized religion," not so much.

That's the kind of equation that, historically, has worried the Jews: Jews + non-Jews uninterested in Judaism = non-Jews. According to the most recent National Jewish Population Survey, nearly half of American Jews married outside their religion in 2001 (vs. 13 percent in 1970). At the same time, many liberal Jewish leaders and groups are noticing that non-Jews — whether they convert or not — are interested in Judaism, and that interfaith couples are swelling the ranks of synagogues and making their communities more diverse and vibrant than ever. Of course, it goes both ways; those communities need to be welcoming in the first place. "Intermarriage is a reality, so — while some see it as a threat and challenge — we have to seize it as an opportunity," says Dr. Olitzky. "It's not necessarily the way I would have preferred to map out the course of Jewish history, but we have to confront it positively."

So should we worry about the non-Jews on JDate? Nah, says Rabbi Jennifer Krause, author of the forthcoming book The Answer: Making Sense of Life, One Question at a Time. "If people believe that their ideal mate is Jewish, then that's where they're going to look," she says. "Even if they start out with stereotypes, if they want more than a superficial relationship they're going to have to get to know each other as full humans. This is just another address for people to try to find deep and lasting connection."

I was shocked when I stumbled on to this article. I have a friend who told me she went on a date from Jdate and told me only after meeting did she realize he was not jewish. I was surprised but assumed it was a rare thing. I know that for me when I was searching I did not use J-date but it was my first criteria must be Jewish (I am orthodox and it is a religeous requirement for me).

Now time for a little research trying to ask if any of my single friends use this and if any of them had heard of other incidents. If this is accurate what will happen is that the Orthodox Rabbi's will come out and be vocal against the website.

debaser · 05-22-2007, 05:16 AM

Cynthetiq · 05-22-2007, 05:57 AM

While I didn't use JDate, I have dated Jewish girls and am married to one. So is my sister.

I think it interesting since a business isn't supposed to be discrminatory in any fashion, yet it appears that this is something that roommates.com is finding out with the recent lawsuit.

Quote:

The suit alleges that advertising such preferences is, in fact, discriminatory and violates longstanding and sacrosanct federal Fair Housing statutes. The Fair Housing Council’s of the San Fernando Valley and San Diego against Roommates.com filed the suit. Although it has yet to be decided, both housing groups have been looking at Craig’s List ads as well.

They’ll probably find plenty to buttress their argument. Craig’s List’s roommate ads have become notorious for the finicky and sometimes downright kinky specifications.

According to the Ninth Circuit lawsuit, if a straight woman were to advertise that she is seeking a gay male roommate, it could be seen as potentially discriminatory towards applicants who aren’t gay males. For the record, Craig’s List posts "stating a discriminatory housing post is illegal" at the top of its real estate pages.

I wonder just how a niche group is supposed to cater directly to that niche group's needs.

Xazy · 05-22-2007, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

While I didn't use JDate, I have dated Jewish girls and am married to one. So is my sister.

I think it interesting since a business isn't supposed to be discrminatory in any fashion, yet it appears that this is something that roommates.com is finding out with the recent lawsuit.

I wonder just how a niche group is supposed to cater directly to that niche group's needs.

The problem here is the religeous people won't go there once it is no longer exclusive (due to the religeous reason why they had to create the site).

Jinn · 05-22-2007, 08:20 AM

I never understood that whole thing. There's no way I could limit myself to only Jewish women. G-d forbidding it or not..

Reese · 05-22-2007, 10:16 AM

What happened to the good ol days of getting really drunk and marrying the first chick that claims you knocked her up? Worked for my grandparents.

If I was on a christian dating site, I wouldnt expect to be paired up with an atheist. Personally, I'd respect the fact that the website is not meant for me and I wouldnt use it. Seems rude to deceive people like that.

Menoman · 05-23-2007, 12:41 AM

internet + respect = lololololol

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai

I never understood that whole thing. There's no way I could limit myself to only Jewish women. G-d forbidding it or not..

its makes little sense to me too, but meh, it's not as bad as mormons. I had a friend of mine(not close friends really though) who was dating a mormon chick, and she wouldn't marry someone who wasn't a mormon so he converted. Apparently there's some shit about non-mormons being at the ceremony so none of his family was even allowed to go to the "Wedding" though it wasn't called that... was called something else I couldn't really care less though.

Dude was a bitch though, he rolled right over when she gave him the news.

analog · 05-23-2007, 07:21 AM

"Going Gentile Into That Good Night"... awesome article title.

And I don't see it as deceptive at all, provided the person is quite open with their non-Jewishness, which the article makes it seem like a good many are.

But really, if they didn't lie on JDate about being Jewish, they'd lie on Match.com or eHarmony.com about something else. People deceive other people all the time, I doubt any deception there is more than would normally be found anywhere.

Besides, what if you find a chick who really doesn't care if you're Jewish or not, so long as you're "the one"... why not "cast the net" a bit more broadly? Because from the article, apparently they're not all demanding their suitors be Jewish. *shrug* Find your person, wherever you can find him/her.

squeeeb · 05-24-2007, 08:01 AM

lying about being jewish on the internet? that would be crazy! right up there with pretending you are a teenage chick on chat, ....NO ONE would do that....
as for those who openly aren't jewish, no one on that site has to contact them...

Xazy · 05-24-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squeeeb

lying about being jewish on the internet? that would be crazy! right up there with pretending you are a teenage chick on chat, ....NO ONE would do that....
as for those who openly aren't jewish, no one on that site has to contact them...

True, I just think that most people there would no not think to even ask that question.

World's King · 05-24-2007, 07:55 PM

I read Heeb Magazine and I'm not Jewish.

Sue me.

Kadath · 05-25-2007, 03:59 AM

Xazy, I think you should be respectful and refer to those of us who are non-Jews by our proper name: goyim.

Xazy · 05-25-2007, 04:06 AM

Heeb magazine is funny... I know several of their writers.

Telluride · 05-25-2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybermike

If I was on a christian dating site, I wouldnt expect to be paired up with an atheist. Personally, I'd respect the fact that the website is not meant for me and I wouldnt use it. Seems rude to deceive people like that.

I agree. The fact is that many people prefer "their own" when it comes to romantic relationships. They want people who are like themselves; religiously, racially, politically, educationally, similar hobbies, etc. If something is set up for use by a particular group - whatever that group may be - I wouldn't crash their party and join if I didn't really belong.

Willravel · 05-25-2007, 08:10 PM

Anyone who's ever been a goy toy knows...

biznatch · 05-26-2007, 04:36 AM

Haha, will.
My wife is from a Jewish family (most of them are from Long Island), and they really welcomed me as one of their own, even though I'm an atheist.
(My wife is pagan).
Funny article, though.

05-22-2007, 05:16 AM	#2 (permalink)
debaser Sir, I have a plan... Location: 38S NC20943324	Oh. __________________ Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.

05-22-2007, 08:20 AM	#5 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	I never understood that whole thing. There's no way I could limit myself to only Jewish women. G-d forbidding it or not.. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

05-22-2007, 10:16 AM	#6 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	What happened to the good ol days of getting really drunk and marrying the first chick that claims you knocked her up? Worked for my grandparents. If I was on a christian dating site, I wouldnt expect to be paired up with an atheist. Personally, I'd respect the fact that the website is not meant for me and I wouldnt use it. Seems rude to deceive people like that. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

05-24-2007, 08:01 AM	#9 (permalink)
squeeeb part of the problem Location: hic et ubique	lying about being jewish on the internet? that would be crazy! right up there with pretending you are a teenage chick on chat, ....NO ONE would do that.... as for those who openly aren't jewish, no one on that site has to contact them... __________________ onward to mayhem!

05-24-2007, 07:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	I read Heeb Magazine and I'm not Jewish. Sue me. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

05-23-2007, 07:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
analog Banned	"Going Gentile Into That Good Night"... awesome article title. And I don't see it as deceptive at all, provided the person is quite open with their non-Jewishness, which the article makes it seem like a good many are. But really, if they didn't lie on JDate about being Jewish, they'd lie on Match.com or eHarmony.com about something else. People deceive other people all the time, I doubt any deception there is more than would normally be found anywhere. Besides, what if you find a chick who really doesn't care if you're Jewish or not, so long as you're "the one"... why not "cast the net" a bit more broadly? Because from the article, apparently they're not all demanding their suitors be Jewish. shrug Find your person, wherever you can find him/her.

05-25-2007, 03:59 AM	#12 (permalink)
Kadath Muffled Location: Camazotz	Xazy, I think you should be respectful and refer to those of us who are non-Jews by our proper name: goyim. __________________ it's quiet in here

05-25-2007, 04:06 AM	#13 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	Heeb magazine is funny... I know several of their writers.

05-25-2007, 08:10 PM	#15 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Anyone who's ever been a goy toy knows...

05-26-2007, 04:36 AM	#16 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	Haha, will. My wife is from a Jewish family (most of them are from Long Island), and they really welcomed me as one of their own, even though I'm an atheist. (My wife is pagan). Funny article, though. __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread