asshopo

Long post, sorry

Ok, so, I have been with this company in 2 different terms of employment that total 7 years minus 8 months that I worked at 2 other companies. For the most part, only the 2nd term applies to my questions, being 4 years this past October.

My Job is basicly:
80% Developer (client/server, web, basic sql dba)
20% Network Admin (server/workstation admin, linux admin including mail/dns/mysql and maintainence)

I am currently paid about $20-25k less a year than salary.com says I should for my field for the amount of time I have been in the field.

I came back to this company at a loss in pay because of the dotbomb era, but was promised a raise when a project was completed. That project ended up being scrapped, and I never got my raise. 3 more years pass and I finally get a 6% raise, the first raise in 3 years. My raise was a 6% raise + being put on salary. Sounds good, but I used to work 50-60 hours a week normally. So basicly, my raise turned out to be a drop in income to the tune of about 5k/yr.

It now has been 4 years since I started again and I asked for a raise. A 5% raise which would put me right back around what I was making hourly. I was told no for a few reasons, the most worring comment being "you have development delivery issues, don't feel bad, you aren't the only one".

Well, "everyone" in development is me and 2 others (we all happen to be friends) so naturally I told them what was up. We all agree that "Development delivery issues" is about 80% NOT our fault. Reasons are, none of us have just 1 hat. In my case, I do the network admin stuff. If a server goes down, I have to call the NOC, find out why, and get it back online, etc. If someone has a virus I have to go fix it. Another reason is we don't have proper management. We dont have a project manager we report to. We report directly to the owner of the company and he says "I want x,y,z" so we develop for that only to find out he wants to add "a,b,c". Well, in alot of companies (including the other 2 I have worked for in the past) have the project manager that will fight and say "no, it can't be done this way right now because it will rip apart the last 5 weeks of dev" and we get stuck with the changes. These changes happen all the time and we get labeled with developers with "Development delivery issues". Doesn't seem right.

Instead of a raise, the boss offered a bonus system. He claims that if I have this project I am currently working on complete on Dec 1st, he will give me a bonus. Now, it is going to take office time + about 50-60 hours outside of work. If the bonuses are worth the time, Id be more than happy to work for it, but the problem I see is that he thinks I am slacking off and in order to get any more pay, I have to go above my position and work all kinds of extra hours to get the pay I should be getting as a developer in the first place.

So, right now, I am facing an unknown amount of time before a raise, a possiblity of a bonus, but not knowing if it is going to be worth it, I can't say if I will be happy with the amount of work needed to get the bonus.

My plan right now is to ride it out, see what the bonus is like and any other projects w/bonuses, but I just have this gut feeling it the time wont equal out to the reward.

What would you do, knowing you are severly underpaid (again, basing that on what salary.com reports for Metro-Detroit for programmer 3)? Ride it out? Stick with it cause the job market sucks (does it anymore?)? I do what they want, their way, and do it for the pay they want to pay. I know I have all kinds of job security, not that they wouldn't fire me if the wanted, but they have no reason to, so that is a concern. Why give up job security, etc?

asshopo

And the other part to this story that I didnt post at first is that I have a pretty bad credit card debt problem that can be fixed with the raise or the equiv of 5% of my pay. Not quite bad enough for bankruptcy, but not good enough to handle either :-/

Cynthetiq

I will not just jump ship with no safety net. Even thought I've got savings to live off of I don't need to burn that if I don't need to.

I always keep my ear to the ground... I entertain anyone who is interested in talking to me about a job prospect. I keep my cards close to my vest so I don't let anyone know that I'm looking or being courted.

Take me out to dinner, talk to me, show me what the workload is going to be. Make me want to give up the bird I have in this hand for the proverbial 2. Show me how your new position is not just going to give me more $$$ but going to give me more quality of life.

So in doing so, I gave up working in the tech sector, something I've done since I was 14 and have done for over 20 years. I still work with technology but have been able to link specific knowledge I have with technology and having worked closely in television production at a live studio for 2 years.

I was laid off in 2001 and brought back in 2003 but in a production capacity. I was working for a publishing company and was still doing the crazy hours and stress. The promise of a new position and coming back to the family I worked with for 6 years was very comforting. I work now from 9:30 - 5:30 with a 1 hour lunch. For years I had put in extra hours, no lunches, weekends, over nights, etc.

Keep your options open. Make friends with headhunters, and keep them in contact on a regular basis. At some point in time they will have something worthwhile that fits you to a T.

good luck!

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

onetime2

It never hurts to look (so long as you keep that knowledge to yourself and never make threats about it without a position already lined up). In fact sometimes I look when I'm not even serious about leaving. It helps me keep fresh in interview skills, refreshes my memory about the wide array of work I've done, and reminds me of all the successes I've had during my professional career.

In your situation I would first realize that the credit card debt isn't really tied to your job at all and looking at it as if the job is keeping you from managing it isn't the best route. Then I would go back to the boss to intelligently and formally inform him the reasons you believe the department isn't working as efficiently as it should and that a project manager would help the situation. If you make a good case maybe he'll beging thinking in that direction. If not, you've done all you could do to rectify the situation. I would then begin acting as a project manager as best I can to move things forward. Once you get some wins by stepping up like that, hit him up for a new title and commensurate pay. Salary jumps are typically greatest when you change positions and titles into more responsibility.

Good luck.

__________________
Strive to be more curious than ignorant.

f6twister

Did your boss tell you what you need to do to fix your development delivery issues and any other issues cited? If not, start looking. In my experience, if the boss wants to give your raises and keep you around, they will tell you want you need to do in order to get what you are after. If they don't, it is just one of many excuses you will hear over the next few years and you watch others get ahead while you stay right where you are at.

__________________
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day. Calvin

denim

Update your resume and put it out on Dice and/or Monster. Won't hurt.

xda

Get your CV / resume together, go out there and start looking for a job. A good developer with your skills should be in demand still today.

In the meantime, while your doing this, start nagging your boss for a raise. Ask for a 1 on 1 meeting and tell him/her how you feel and why you deserve a raise. Try to raise your profile within the company, make sure that you are doing a good job, and make sure everyone knows you are doing a good job.

Copy senior management on your status reports to your boss, especially ones where you get stuff done well ahead of schedule. Make yourself as indispensable if as you can.

Never miss an opportunity to blow your own trumpet.

When you get a better job offer from someone else you can then decide if you want to use it as a lever to get that raise and stay with your current job (hey, maybe its a really great place to work ?) or take the new opportunity and go.

In my experience, in the software development game, its a very good idea to move every few years, as you broaden your experience and get involved with different types of work.

And the best of luck to you with your search.

XDA