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Macheath · 09-03-2003, 10:11 PM

I don't know if the equation between true slavery and wage slavery can be upheld. A person working in McDonalds can't reasonably be called a slave because their live outside of the job is "free". They are not a chattel of McDonalds either. If they get sick and die, McDonalds doesn't lose a piece of its "property". That issue of ownership was probably one of the only things in human history that prompted masters to even try to feed their slaves.

I really want to discuss this whole topic in terms of TOTAL control of all society because that is what the article implies.

Depending on how you want to think about it, it was funny or inevitable or symbolic that the robotic takeover did not start at MIT, NASA, Microsoft or Ford. It started at a Burger-G restaurant in Cary, NC on May 17, 2010.

The implication is this program led to total robotic control of society. Calling a burger flipper a 'slave of robots' is silly if the managing director is still human - If anything, 'manna' too is a slave of the human CEO.

They can only ever truly be slave masters when they are running the company without any human authority above them. Even the means to use force (a basis of social control) can't be in human hands; hence no 'men with guns' are allowed.

Now could humans be slaves to robots if this scenario of absolute power with no ultimate human authority were in place? Could this be done without a 'promotion program' or the illusion of human control?

Well let's look at historical slavery. Could slaves be 'promoted'? Yes. In the US you had house slaves and field slaves. This promotion served a pupose. By separating out the lighter skinned house slaves you promoted division in the slave population and ensured that they would never unite and rise up against you. It was a social control.

If they could save up the money, slaves in Ancient Rome could purchase their freedom. There was dissent and uprisings too, the largest of these being the Spartacus uprising with an army of 120 000 slaves. Rome defeated this group of course, but in the course of history Rome fell and the fall would not have been delayed by the efforts of a slave poulation who had no loyalty or love for the Empire.

It could be said without a program of social control through division (the promotion program) slaves will revolt. The 'illusion program' would be an even more powerful control. I think even a 'cultural awareness' program would be needed. Would manna be programmed to encourage workers to talk, sing, laugh and interact or would it see that as prohibited redundant activity.

If humans rose up, could they win? In this scenario, it's possible to give the computer all kinds of Godlike power. It could be said that a human hacker would not be skilled enough to stop the program. It could be said that a group of guerillas blowing up the robotics factory could never stop the whole operation. If faced with hopeless odds fighting against a Godlike power, would all humans give up and end their folly? Satan didn't; and a good many atheists would not accept the 'justice' of being sent to purgatory for their lack of belief.

Would a computer faced with irrational resistance to its rule continue with heavy-handed oppression? Would it perhaps consider more subtle methods of social control such as cultivating an illusion of autonomy and bread and circuses? In the end, would it not discover that the 'illusion' and 'promotion' programs increased population and productivity 78% more than the 'robots with guns' and 'starvation threat' programs?

09-03-2003, 10:11 PM	#28 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	I don't know if the equation between true slavery and wage slavery can be upheld. A person working in McDonalds can't reasonably be called a slave because their live outside of the job is "free". They are not a chattel of McDonalds either. If they get sick and die, McDonalds doesn't lose a piece of its "property". That issue of ownership was probably one of the only things in human history that prompted masters to even try to feed their slaves. I really want to discuss this whole topic in terms of TOTAL control of all society because that is what the article implies. Depending on how you want to think about it, it was funny or inevitable or symbolic that the robotic takeover did not start at MIT, NASA, Microsoft or Ford. It started at a Burger-G restaurant in Cary, NC on May 17, 2010. The implication is this program led to total robotic control of society. Calling a burger flipper a 'slave of robots' is silly if the managing director is still human - If anything, 'manna' too is a slave of the human CEO. They can only ever truly be slave masters when they are running the company without any human authority above them. Even the means to use force (a basis of social control) can't be in human hands; hence no 'men with guns' are allowed. Now could humans be slaves to robots if this scenario of absolute power with no ultimate human authority were in place? Could this be done without a 'promotion program' or the illusion of human control? Well let's look at historical slavery. Could slaves be 'promoted'? Yes. In the US you had house slaves and field slaves. This promotion served a pupose. By separating out the lighter skinned house slaves you promoted division in the slave population and ensured that they would never unite and rise up against you. It was a social control. If they could save up the money, slaves in Ancient Rome could purchase their freedom. There was dissent and uprisings too, the largest of these being the Spartacus uprising with an army of 120 000 slaves. Rome defeated this group of course, but in the course of history Rome fell and the fall would not have been delayed by the efforts of a slave poulation who had no loyalty or love for the Empire. It could be said without a program of social control through division (the promotion program) slaves will revolt. The 'illusion program' would be an even more powerful control. I think even a 'cultural awareness' program would be needed. Would manna be programmed to encourage workers to talk, sing, laugh and interact or would it see that as prohibited redundant activity. If humans rose up, could they win? In this scenario, it's possible to give the computer all kinds of Godlike power. It could be said that a human hacker would not be skilled enough to stop the program. It could be said that a group of guerillas blowing up the robotics factory could never stop the whole operation. If faced with hopeless odds fighting against a Godlike power, would all humans give up and end their folly? Satan didn't; and a good many atheists would not accept the 'justice' of being sent to purgatory for their lack of belief. Would a computer faced with irrational resistance to its rule continue with heavy-handed oppression? Would it perhaps consider more subtle methods of social control such as cultivating an illusion of autonomy and bread and circuses? In the end, would it not discover that the 'illusion' and 'promotion' programs increased population and productivity 78% more than the 'robots with guns' and 'starvation threat' programs?