zenda

Hi Poetry, I've just got back from holiday and have been on a mission of catch-up lurk. Heck - lot's been happening. I am keen to contribute to your other thread, and thank you for this opportunity to clear my palette and begin to clarify my sense of 'on topic' for when I join your other one, in the next couple of days.


Hi Ply

I'd like to confirm that you are not only intending something like 'Orgasms alone may constitute justification after the fact, as in 'Orgasms = enjoyment, therefore you enjoyed it, therefore it was OK for me to impose'. I believe and hope that you and she have got some way of giving each other messages of sensitivity to each's needs and acceptance of each's desires, and that she could and would confirm this if asked by a respectful third party.


Safe words are explicit conscious contracts to bypass unsafe presumption of others' reluctance or consent; to bypass the 'I know better what you really want than you do '. However, parties who know each other very well can develop 'I really mean this' signals and, hopefully, a proven history of correctly reading and acting on them when presented. I am guessing this to be the case between Ply and his lady, and in general, this is an organic development of 'safe signals' - 'double checking' which applies also outside the domain of sexual activity, and, since people vary, requires a sensible refresh rate. Wakefulness is paramount in order to surf the crest of the wave, one side of which lies too much, and the other, not enough;

I share this view, and maintain that the spirit as well as the letter of this principle are a high priority for all parties to learn.

For me, part of the spirit made 'letter' is: No means no (even if moments earlier it was a yes) and an UNcertain Yes is incongruent consent and subject to clarification before being acted on.

Could sound a bit boring, I mean, sometimes part of the thrill can be going over the edge and wondering "Feck ... will I ever return from this trip", as can be the act of surprising each other [cf Clouseau and Cato]. Rest easy on that score: all the safety lines, both physical and communicational in the world cannot take away the risk of danger or inappropriateness. However, in mountaineering, typically it is the climbers who check their and each others kit, health, ropes and safety lines who succeed in reaching the craziest peaks and summits, succeed via the sickest [modern meaning] routes, and succeed more than once. They build trust more solid than the rock they climb, and minimise the likelihood of need for their or others' resentment or remorse for consequential damage or mind-changing which might occur.

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ZENDA