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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
A very good point, but you will find that humans eat a far more diversified selection from the prior kingdom than they do the latter. And most eat a much larger proportion of their daily consumption from it as well.
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I never said we didn't. I never implied it, either.
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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
If it's one source, then it is certainly a varied and far-reaching one. You'd have a better time living off of the plantae kingdom than you would the animalia kingdom, exclusively. This means the food derived from the latter kingdom is more "expendable" from a generalists perspective. Hunter gatherer societies had often relied more on the gatherer aspect than they did the hunter aspect. (So is my understanding.)
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The hunter-gather issue will need to be looked up. Pretty sure the whole point of "hunter-gatherer" is that they didn't have fields of wheat and maize. If I'm walking through the woods, I tend to see more birds and other animals than edible plants. Yeah sure there are small things like pine seeds, you can boil acorns, etc, or you can kill the squirrel, eat it's stomach contents and have dinner over a fire.
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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
Also, fungus is actually quite full of nutrients. Cremini mushrooms alone contain rich sources of vitamins and minerals, including selenium, copper, potassium, zinc, and several B vitamins, not to mention a modest amount of protein. We would all do much better by eating more mushrooms.  |
Yeah and so does dockweed probably, when you count the catepillars. I'll take your word for it. You can't digest chitin though, and it's chock full of that, locking in many things that could be utilized if not housed in an undigestable material. Point is, what you can squeeze out of it in a lab doesn't mean you'll get the same effect in your gut. This is part of why I say that generally fungi are low in nutrients.
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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
No worries, I didn't get you wrong. I just wanted to establish that our dependency for nutrients is more on plants than it is on animals.
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Again, never implied or stated. Just because I said one might develop illness from sticking to one kingdom or the other doesn't mean that I said you must eat more meat than plant matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
Interesting point. Did you know that in many Third World countries, osteoporosis is almost unheard of?
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Start off a baby on a starving diet and do that for a few generations, and I bet that family would be pretty healthy, too. Too late for that, for us. Let's stick to what we
can change. Unless you want to move to africa and raise your kids in poverty. Good luck with those flies, they pack a nasty punch.
Also, we're talking about people that have been in the same area since we evolved as a species; their dietary needs and adaptions will be as varied as any other species that covers a wide range of habitats/ecosystems. Just like when humans moved out of africa and their skin became lighter and their noses narrower, for the ones that stayed, their calcium uptake and retention is most likely much more efficient. For those that start off shoving fortified milk down their throats, of course calcium retention is going to be less efficient. Feel free to prove me wrong on that, it's just a hunch.
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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
Ironically, vegans can often be less dependent on supplements than omnivores (namely, North American omnivores) because they consume more nutrients from their diets naturally by consuming their calories from whole foods rather than processed foods and meat. Meat, despite it being rich in protein and some vitamins and minerals such as zinc, B vitamins, and iron, actually isn't that nutrient dense otherwise. Replace the calories you consume in meat with plant-based alternatives and suddenly you get a boost in a wide variety of other nutrients that were otherwise non-existent. B-12 is probably the only major issue for vegans, but only because of the issue of pesticides and our need to wash produce to a pristine standard. Otherwise B-12 is abundant in soil. Omnivores supplement for B-12 by eating meat...animals eat B-12 from the soil--that's where it comes from.
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Ironically as well, I take no supplements and am very healthy. I don't depend on processed foods though. I like uncooked veggies usually, or lightly steamed. Green beans I cook myself are sooo much better than the canned variety, as an example. I eat celery like a giant green apple. I eat lettuce like a dinosaur, but I drop a little salt on the leaves before I take a bite, again, like an apple. I eat beef nearly raw and eat lots of turkey and chicken as well. Oh and cheese nearly every day and fruit in the evening. Mix in eggs and (for now) halloween candy and you've got a balanced meal LOL. I gotta throw the rest of that candy away....
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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
Again, it comes down to choice. You've made your choice. Whether or not it is impossible for your wife to thrive as a vegan--due to her situation--is another issue.
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How so? Is this not the point? Some can do it, some can't. The whole reason this started is because one person thought that her idea of a meal is great for everyone. My wife never tried to be vegan, just vegetarian. Even then she couldn't do it without hitting the floor anytime she exerted herself.
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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru
My main supplement is a multivitamin, which I would take regardless of whether or not I consumed meat and dairy. My main source of calcium, beyond that, is from fortified soy milk (just as cow's milk is fortified) and dark green vegetables, sesame seeds, and somewhat from mushrooms, molasses, citrus and other sources. My iron, besides from multivitamins, comes from soy product fortification in addition to molasses, sesame and pumpkin seeds, lentils, beans, and, to a lesser extent, a wide number of other vegetables and grains. Actually iron is more concentrated in the first few items in this list than it is in beef and other meats, but that's a good thing because it isn't in as absorbent a form. This is why vegans need to eat more iron than the average person. But this is fine, because much of what vegans eat is dense in nutrients, both iron and otherwise--plus vitamin C helps absorption...vegans typically eat a more than ample amounts of vitamin C.
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I'm debating with a vegetarian. Now I see why you're so adamant over anyone else so far
I'm just messing with you, but it is obvious at this point that you have a steak (get it? haha I kill me!) in this topic. I wasn't even trying to debate really, just discuss, but you've analyzed everything I've said with a fine tooth comb. Of course I've replied in kind, but it just looks ugly and nit-picky. You like teh veggies, I like teh meats and veggies. Do you mind if we have a discussion instead of nitpicking like a grouchy married couple?
-----Added 9/11/2008 at 07 : 09 : 36-----
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Originally Posted by stellabella1978
Touchy. I wasn't pushing anything on you. I don't care what people eat. I was merely pointing out that for $10.00 you can eat A LOT. Your reaction is a little extreme.
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And I explained that it was a sensitive topic externally to this board and apologized
