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roachboy · 01-24-2006, 07:31 AM

nice try, ace:
your posts aim at dissolving this spying thing into a banal list of other types of intrusive action on the part of an unspecified (in your post) "state"--i am not sure what collapsing local, state and federal levels into each other gets you, really, but anyway if you view domestic spying at the federal level in this (arbitrary) context, then i guess it is not a probem to run the charge to ground and simply argue "government is getting too big"

except:
-domestic spying on this order appears to be illegal. here is a space in which the present hyper-partisan climate really has bad effects: if the administration were democrat, you would be howling in the night to protest these same policies---it would be lilke the right's response to the new deal all over again--but since it is a far right administration, no problem....

-domestic spying programs unfold in the context of an administration that uses the "war on terror" to legitimate an unparalleled extension of executive power
which i would imagine you support, given your sophsiticated "big vs. little" evaluative criteria, an authoritarian executive branch that acts without regard for law--not to mention trivialities like civil liberties--because such actions as these **do** effectively shrink government----they cut out the pesky legislative and their irritating oversights implemented in the name of the people--and because these policies occur and are implemented in secret, they attempt to bypass enforcement of law as well, and so effectively cut out the judiciary.

--maybe that is why you seem to have no trouble with it----i am and remain baffled by the importance of this size queen approch to thinking about politics that you see surfacing from that curious little crossover area that links liberatarians tempermentally to the extreme right...

---i do not know your position on the iraq debacle, but it would not seem to me to follow that you would oppose it enough to act publically on the matter, so perhaps you do not imagine this kind of domestic spying program could be directed at you--rather it entails surveillance of Bad People like those who attend anti-war demonstrations or meetings linked to opposition to the war....so perhaps you see nothing problematic in domestic spy programs originating with the pentagon because you think it will only affect Them..

---among the few feature that have so far seperated the american domestic politics from the types of authoritarian politics the americans have supported and trained and armed and financed around the world is the seperation of the military from involvement in politics. i dont know about you, ace, but i think that seperation is a Good Thing. i would imagine that you would oppose such a blurring of lines on big vs little grounds--but perhaps not--what exactly is you position on this?

01-24-2006, 07:31 AM	#13 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	nice try, ace: your posts aim at dissolving this spying thing into a banal list of other types of intrusive action on the part of an unspecified (in your post) "state"--i am not sure what collapsing local, state and federal levels into each other gets you, really, but anyway if you view domestic spying at the federal level in this (arbitrary) context, then i guess it is not a probem to run the charge to ground and simply argue "government is getting too big" except: -domestic spying on this order appears to be illegal. here is a space in which the present hyper-partisan climate really has bad effects: if the administration were democrat, you would be howling in the night to protest these same policies---it would be lilke the right's response to the new deal all over again--but since it is a far right administration, no problem.... -domestic spying programs unfold in the context of an administration that uses the "war on terror" to legitimate an unparalleled extension of executive power which i would imagine you support, given your sophsiticated "big vs. little" evaluative criteria, an authoritarian executive branch that acts without regard for law--not to mention trivialities like civil liberties--because such actions as these do effectively shrink government----they cut out the pesky legislative and their irritating oversights implemented in the name of the people--and because these policies occur and are implemented in secret, they attempt to bypass enforcement of law as well, and so effectively cut out the judiciary. --maybe that is why you seem to have no trouble with it----i am and remain baffled by the importance of this size queen approch to thinking about politics that you see surfacing from that curious little crossover area that links liberatarians tempermentally to the extreme right... ---i do not know your position on the iraq debacle, but it would not seem to me to follow that you would oppose it enough to act publically on the matter, so perhaps you do not imagine this kind of domestic spying program could be directed at you--rather it entails surveillance of Bad People like those who attend anti-war demonstrations or meetings linked to opposition to the war....so perhaps you see nothing problematic in domestic spy programs originating with the pentagon because you think it will only affect Them.. ---among the few feature that have so far seperated the american domestic politics from the types of authoritarian politics the americans have supported and trained and armed and financed around the world is the seperation of the military from involvement in politics. i dont know about you, ace, but i think that seperation is a Good Thing. i would imagine that you would oppose such a blurring of lines on big vs little grounds--but perhaps not--what exactly is you position on this? __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 01-24-2006 at 07:35 AM..