Kurant

I'll give you that, however. He wasen't brilliant by any means. Payton is aging, he's on the downside of his career. You can't argue that. IMO, before last year, he was still one of the best guards in basketball, and he'd by on any team I'd coach. But face it, he's not THE Gary Payton anymore. Not only on offense, but his defense he was torn up the entire finals.

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2) Fisher has been replaced by Rush (who is also quite clutch) and Butler. While Fish was undoubtedly the best at drawing charges, he taught that to Walton and so we aren't missing much of a beat with him. Besides, Fish was a streaky shooter at best. He was not in good standing with the fans until that shot against the Spurs.

Rush isn't exactly consistant either. Without a doubt he's got the game. We'll see this year. I said last year the Lakers needed to hang on to this guy. He's got talent. Pretty amazing upside to him. Still, inexperienced, and he's going to have to figure it out quick to keep the Lakers alive.

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3) The loss of the most dominating center in the game was inevitable, BUT we got quality in return. True, the Lakers won't be able to run half-court sets like they used to, but the abortion of The Big Crybaby opened up a gameplan that was previously only run with the second unit: RUNNING GAME. Everyone is acting like the Lakers lost a huge chunk of their game without replacing it with anything. As a fan of basketball and a fan of the Lakers, I'm more than pleased to see that my team will be an energetic, creative and exciting team. Remember how that worked out in the 80's with Showtime?

I agree. On all accounts. However, why was Shaq the constant crybaby? Kobe threw his fits too. Like shooting 3 times in a game or whatever it was. If Kobe wasen't there, would you bash on him too? It goes hand in hand. Kobe and Shaq, didn't get along. It's both of them, not just Shaq.

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4) Laker fans know Shaq was a huge part of the 3-peat. However, in the 2 years following that, we also know he was more of a drag than ever. Despite his dominating presence, you have to factor in all the turmoil he caused. He took an extended vacation and neglected to get surgery until late in the preseason, thus missing 11 games. He shows up for camp totally out of shape. He comes to the press after every loss, whining about how he never gets the ball. He and Kobe simply did not get along.

Lets get somthing straight. NOTHING Shaq did had ANYTHING to do with why Detroit spanked dat ass. LA was simply not as good. Not as energetic, didn't want it as much, and that wasen't all Shaq. Payton was a tool for 5 games. Kobe really didn't play well. Shaq couldn't get it done, that was a solid team effort in losing.

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5) There is something that you feel about your team... I just felt like the Lakers didn't have the high spirits and the extra gears to get them past certain teams on some nights, no matter how easy the opponent was. How do you fix this? You change the environment of the team. You mix it up a little. You get rid of the cancer. Shaq was a drag. You can call Kobe a drag too, I'll allow you that. However, the most they affected the team was when the two rubbed eachother the wrong way - one of them had to go.

Coulen't agree more. And I don't call Kobe a drag, I don't call Shaq a drag. I call Kobe AND Shaq, together, a drag.

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6) The Lakers no longer have the smug, buddy-buddy team aura that they showed with Shaq. I see this as good. They're going to develop a work ethic now. They're gonna be a working team that gets it done on the court instead of the chalk board. That means a lot. In conclusion, the Lakers are a totally different team now. It would be unfair to say they lost anything until you saw them play as a team on opening day. There have been so many factors and variables that have changed in this offseason that to count them out all ready would be premature.

Your right.

Bottom line, we've seen these other teams, that remained a team, and went through not huge changes, but good changes, and we know how good (argue it or not, but the teams in the west that are contenders, are good) these other teams are, or were. That is still yet to be determined. I just don't think they are legitimate contenders with any of the big boys. But, I could be wrong. We shall see.

In retrospec, The Bulls in the 90's had nothing else except role players, and great supprt for you know who. I could see this going the same way, but that also depends, on you know who. IMO, Kobe can make this work. But Rudy has a shitload of work to do with him.