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Women & Dieting

Discussion in 'Tilted Life and Sexuality' started by SeanMyklKing, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Many people are led by impatience and instant gratification.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Thanks for all the feedback.

    I'm just gonna let her go through this for the next few weeks. And when she fails again I'll step in and explain why and help her come up with a better diet. I'm also making run with me at least twice a week.
     
  3. Meier_Link

    Meier_Link New Member

    Personally, I think most fad diets do work in the short term. It's coming off of them that screws people up. Low-carb high fat moderate protein diets are great for burning off body fat while mostly preserving muscle, but cheat on the low carb part and you have the most unhealthly diet possible. For most people that are just trying to lose weight the best option is a caloric restricted diet that's low in fat and high in complex carb with moderate protein and cardio exercise a few days a week. The exercise and healthy eating should be a lifestyle change more than a quick fix if they are to have any hope of maintaining that weight loss. Here's something else most people don't get. Too skinny doesn't look much better than too fat, weight is just a number and if someone loses a bunch of muscle and fat, guess what, they'll just look skinny-fat. Putting on muscle, for women as well as men, which often means slower weight loss, will make a far bigger difference then just quickly dropping a bunch of weight.
     
  4. This diet was wildly popular at my last place of work; it was ingesting or injecting HCG hormone and was limited to 500 calories a day. The CEO pushed everyone into trying it, swearing it was the best thing on God's green earth and that if you wanted to lose weight, it was the ONLY way to do it. You'd think she was selling the drops (in her case, shots) herself. Anyway, there were quite a few takers, most of them female but a couple of guys tried it too. All of them lost weight. All of them gained it back when they quit using the HCG and started eating normally again. Some gained back more than they lost. All of them were out the hundreds of dollars they doled out for the hormone they imported from India. Morons.

    About the same time, I lost about 20 pounds. Everyone excitedly commented on how great I looked and asked what I had done to lose the weight. When I told them I put down the fucking potato chips and got off my ass, they all lost their excitement.
     
  5. Poetry

    Poetry Totally Sharky, Complete

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    That was it. HCG. Couldn't rememberthe name of it. I just remember seeing her daily status updates about her progress and her diet and just wanting to smack the hell out of her.

    They always get so bummed when you tell them actual work is involved in weight loss.
     
  6. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Often, doing what is good for you is difficult; doing what is harmful is easy.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. LinaT14

    LinaT14 Vertical

    Location:
    Texas
    '...not (consume) nearly enough complex carbohydrates, but somehow "carbs" have garnered a disproportionate amount of attention when it comes to dieting. When the detrimental effects of eating too many "carbs" kind of pales in contrast to the dangers of consuming too much fat and protein.'


    Actually, carbohydrates, complex carbohydrates (aka 'starches') are not as healthy as conventional wisdom would suggest. In digestion, each complex carb chain is broken down into it's simest components-- simple sugars; or, glucose. When your bloodstream has too much sugar in it, insulin is released so sugar can be removed from the blood. When this happens, the excess sugar is turned into glycogen and stored in the liver. When the liver cannot hold any more glycogen, glycogen is shipped off the fat cells. Fat cells get bigger, you get fatter.
    So, complex carbohydrates, too many, at least, make you fat. Not fat. Not protein. Look it up.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    Lina is correct.

    What we thought we knew about fats (that they are bad and should be avoided) is being proven wrong. In fact, the research we did for the documentary we just finished mirrors what Lina has posted above regarding sugar, insulin and fat.

    I just re-watched an interview we filmed with one of the doctors working on just this sort of research at the Harvard Medical School.

    He fingers sugar and refined carbs as the worst sorts of foods we can be eating and points out:
    He goes on to say:
    One of the big things he points out, that amazed me:
    He pointed out that focusing on calories alone is a problem. His essential message was:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    I don't read anything there, charles, that says you should cut down your intake of complex carbs.

    he isn't talking about fruits, vegetables and whole grains there.

    yes, complex carbs break down into glucose. but your body needs glucose. your brain will only use glucose for energy.
    I would like to see the story of someone who got fat eating too much broccoli and whole wheat bread. if it exists.

    Complex carbs should account for about 1/2 of the calories in your diet. 1/2 of a healthy, moderate diet. Until someone shows me evidence that that is an unhealthy way of eating, I will stick with the known science.
     
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  10. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    He does say that complex carbs are good but not essential to our diets. Fat and protiens, on the other hand, are necessary to our survival. We can live without carbs if we have to.

    Regardless, the point is that sugar is very bad for us. Carbs are converted to sugar in our bodies. Too many carbs is not a good thing. That said, complex carbs have additional benefits that are good for us that, it can be argued, neutralize the negative aspects.

    More to the point, fat should not be viewed as bad for us. It should not be viewed as something that makes us fat or causes heart disease. The research that suggests a connection, are not believed to be incorrect.

    Again, what he thinks we all need to be eating more of is: fruits, vegetables, nuts, wholegrains, fish and vegetable oils. He did mention there were other things that we should be eating more of, but wanted to keep it simple.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    yes, and half of those items he suggests we should be eating are complex carbs.

    I've said it before and I will say it again, just because our bodies can manufacture glucose in other ways, doesn't imply that we should. Our body works to ensure our survival and in ways that can be a detriment to other body systems. We should eat correctly, which means eating a balanced diet which our bodies can utilize efficiently with a minimum of stress on organ systems.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    This.

    I can attest to featuring plenty of complex carbs as a part of a balanced diet. Over the past three months, I lost 20 lbs. whilst consuming at least 50-60% complex carbohydrates. I didn't change my exercise patterns (daily walks), I merely cut out most junk food (including added sugar) and all meat, eggs, and dairy, and I added wholesome foods: fruit, vegetables, nuts, seeds, legumes... I wasn't even overweight. I wasn't even trying to lose weight.

    My carbs consist mainly of whole grains, oatmeal, legumes, long-grain rice, and fruit. If you were to check, most of these items would rank "low" on the glycemic index, while some would rank "medium" (the latter of which still gets green-lighted for diabetics by the Canadian Diabetes Association).

    Complex carbs aren't generally the problem. I see a danger in demonizing them. Can you eat too much of them? Well, yes. Instant rice, Cornflakes, french fries, rice cakes, donuts, scones, bagels, etc., aren't very good food choices, and it's easy to overeat these things.

    I don't know about you, but I find it difficult to eat that much oatmeal before I'm full. Also: beef raises your insulin score more so than oatmeal. Should we be talking about eliminating certain meat too? How about we simply start by admitting that oatmeal is good for you? It helps lower cholesterol and stabilize blood sugar, after all. Oatmeal: It's even great for diabetics!
     
  13. Cayvmann

    Cayvmann Very Tilted

    A tape measure is a better tool to judge body modification, via exercise. I love me a fit woman. My woman is about perfect and she's worried about cellulite. I don't get it. It's rare to not have some cellulite, unless you are a photoshopped model, that is.

    She's using an app on her phone to track her food intake, and nutrient profile. That's probably the best diet plan there is.
     
  14. SCBronco

    SCBronco Getting Tilted

    your story is exactly the kind of stuff that drives me crazy as well... it sounds like you have a handle on yourself, your friends would probably do well to imitate. the rollercoaster that they are submitting themselves to will have horrible effects on thier long-term health, most signifigacntly to the heart. True Dieting, is a life-long thing, and only works well when coupled with exercise. I'm no expert, but life experiences taught me the right way form a fairly young age. i also think it could be generational thing. My generation is unfortuantely stuck on instant gratification, and the exit ramp that takes you away from hard work, and straight to relaxation. this leads to the trend you described above... "Look at me im skinny!" and then six months later, "Holy Shit im a Fatass!", repeat...

    some folks may take this opinion as being sexist, but i see it as a physiological thing. Many men can find a healthy exercise routine, and stick with it, more naturally than most women due in part to higher testosterone. its just more natural for men in general ot be more active than women in general. we like it more! its in our brain chemistry! i know if i sit still longer than 20 minutes, i feel like im gonna pop! now of course there are exceptions to every rule, (Like those fitness chicks who could eat me for breakfast) but i can only assume we are talking about average men & women who give a shit, not the extremely lazy, or the morbidly obese, (or the hyper motivated). your friends care about their health, they just dont know how to do it right. they think that fitness requires an extremely high level of work, and then they get burnt out on it, and wonder why. Fitness isnt a drag race, its a marathon... moderately high exercise, moderately healthy diet... FOREVER!!! if their fad diets get them where they wanna be when they wanna be there, then great... do one fad diet to get started... then immediately slow down to a good moderate routine, and maintian it...

    but then... some people are just hard headed.... and what do i know? :cool:
     
  15. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member

    Location:
    Nebraska
    Thanks, Lina. This is very well and clearly stated. It's also worth pointing out that THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY CONTROVERSIAL. This knowledge goes back to the the 1940s. This is the way human metabolism works.
    Grains, whether whole or not, are mostly starch. Starch breaks down to glucose. Glucose drives insulin, to control blood sugar. Insulin drives glycogen. Glycogen drives triglycerides. Drive fat deposition.
    100 grams of white bread flour will break down to give you 71 gm of glucose.
    100 grams of whole grain whole wheat flour will break down to give you 61 gm of glucose.

    That's still a lot of sugar.

    Your body needs glucose is not the same as your diet needs carbs. Given an absence of carbs, the liver can and will make all the glucose that the brain needs (from fat) through the process of gluconeogenesis. The Inuit, the Lapps, the Maasai, and Native American Bison People managed to thrive on diets with little or no dietary carbohydrates.
    The "known science" once said that trans-fats were healthy. And that the sun revolved around the earth. But, yes. If what you are doing works for you, don't fix it. If your lipid panel numbers look good and you're happy with your weight and fitness, then you're probably one of those people that can tolerate more carbs in your diet.:) But some of us can't. The high carb lipophobic diet advice that known science and conventional wisdom has foisted upon us for the last 40 some years obviously does not work well for a lot of us. Take a look around.:eek:

    Lindy
     
  16. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    But it's important not to consider whole grains the same as glucose or even other starches. Oatmeal, for example, helps stabilize blood sugar and garners a lower insulin response than beef, let alone other starch-based foods.

    It's not just starch = glucose. It's more about the rate of conversion.

    This is the root of much confusion in nutrition and has likely fuelled a lot of needless carb phobias.

    I've always burned the most fat while consuming at least 60% carbohydrates. I simply choose the right foods.
     
  17. LinaT14

    LinaT14 Vertical

    Location:
    Texas
    I'm glad you can eat a lot of carbs and burn fat off. Obviously your body is more efficient in doing so with carbs. For me to burn off fat, I have to have less than 30 g of carbs a day. Minimally. I am also a woman, which means my body is wired to store more fat-- in case of pregnancy; so it's harder, also, to get rid of.

    What works for you doesn't work for me. And everybody's body chemistry is slightly different; my mother-in-law won't burn fat until she's down to 5g of carbs a day or less. My children, in their early 20's, eat pretty much anything and everything all day. Because of these variations in metabolism, I think it's safe to say that whatever diet works for you, you should stick to it, and that includes trying a 'fad' diet. That, and exercise.

    I do not believe in yo-yo dieting: I think that's the worst thing you can do.
     
  18. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member

    Location:
    Nebraska
    "Whole" in front of grains is like "crisp green" in front of lettuce, or "fresh ripe" in front of strawberries.
    I love oatmeal. It's the only grain that I eat with any regularity. Especially in the winter, I'll have steel cut "Irish" oatmeal with heavy cream and berries. But the McCann's can can :rolleyes: lasts me a couple of years.
    Having said that, if one eats low-carb, one needs no "help stabilizing blood sugars."

    Regardless of the rate of conversion (of whole grain to glucose) if you eat a lot of it all the time, then your pancreas is always producing insulin. Which can lead to insulin resistance, which leads to even more insulin production...
    And I'm not really phobic about carbs. Admittedly somewhat phobic about grains, whole or not. But set down a plate of broccoli and cauliflower with garlic butter in front of me and watch it disappear.:)

    Well then, you're on a high fat diet. The fat comes from the fat stored in your body. I'm not overweight at about 110lbs. I burn a lot of fat, though, with my ketogenic diet. It just comes from my diet instead of my body.

    The human race has evolved under varying conditions in a lot of different environments. From littoral areas at sea level, to 15,000 foot mountain ranges. Equatorial hot boxes to polar iceboxes. Hot or cold, dry or humid. Vegetation (by definition, carbs) plentiful near the equator, to vegetation almost non-existant near the polar regions. Plantains and tubers to whale blubber and oolichan grease. Humans thrived in all these environments for hundreds of thousand of years.
    So, along comes agriculture a few thousand years ago. Maybe 500 generations. Not much human evolution in a few hundred generations. But modern high yield dwarf wheat cultivars are very different from the "daily bread" of biblical times. Modern wheat, corn, and rice are very different from crops just a hundred years ago. Higher starch. Higher gluten. More uniform. Easier to industrialize. And store. And transport. And patent. And ration.

    And now governments and "experts" can prescribe a healthy "balanced" diet, conveniently based mostly on genetically modified grains. One food plan, indivisible, with high carbs and low fats for all. Hoo-ray.

    Lindy
     
  19. fflowley

    fflowley Don't just do something, stand there!

    Can we agree on this: The human body is in no way prepared to handle the liquified sugar slurry people pour down their throats known as "soda".
    It's a massive, rapidly delivered dissolved sugar load unlike anything evolution has prepared us for.
     
  20. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    No it's not.

    Maybe not, but they do have other health concerns to keep abreast of.

    So can dietary fat. You may know well enough by now that I support a well-balanced diet. Most people who follow a balanced diet will have a low risk of insulin resistance, though there are other factors besides diet. As far as diet is concerned, eating low on the GI scale will be fine, even for diabetics.

    No I'm not on a high-fat diet. My fat intake is about 15 to 20%, sometimes higher. I eat anywhere between 75 g to 100+ g of fat daily. I fluctuate a lot. My carbs range between 50 to 60% usually. I'm not overweight either at 5'9" and 155 lbs., despite my high carb intake and relatively relaxed lifestyle (I really need to exercise more).

    It's pretty common for both males and females to burn fat in a high carbohydrate diet. Most of them do it athletically. If you're sedentary, you may have to game your system to burn fat instead. I'd sooner recommend exercise.