Why attack Sikhs?

plan 9: so of course there's no reason to outlaw murder because that doesn't stop murder.
and there's no reason to outlaw robbery because that doesn't stop robbers.

ad infinitum.



and cyn--so let me get this straight. the thread's about yet another massacre in which gun laws have been weakened and you're complaining about what a Problem it is to go to a gun club and shoot at bottles? seriously? seems like there's a bit of an perspective problem.

 

Hey, I don't hang a JD beneath my name on a business card or anything, but something tells me there's a slight difference between outlawing certain acts or behaviors and outlawing inanimate objects. That's fine. You can go through your whole naive life convinced that new laws and restrictions will somehow prevent violence-inclined psychotic dipshits from using the gajillion guns already in private ownership to commit horrible crimes.

Laws, like law enforcement personnel, are an after-the-fact kinda thing.

Good thing the police officers on the scene had guns, right?

/selling off all my guns, gonna get into another fetish

 

I think it is pretty clear that such fallacious arguments and oversimplifications prevents this country from even having a national dialogue on gun violence.

 

given the numbers about gun violence globally, and given the recent massacre shows in the u.s. of a., these "arguments" against stricter control on access to guns (access is an action) and their usage (usage is an action---do i really have to waste my time going through this sort of thing?) are rational moves for the larger objective of reducing gun-related violence, the big ticket items of which are these recurrent massacres that you seem to want to poo poo, plan 9. there's also a strong argument to be made about clamping down on these ultra-right neo-fascist organizations of the sort the southern poverty law center's been tracking for the last 20 years or so. no interest in that from the same organizations that like guns so much. must be a coincidence.

 

Yes, roachboy, because all that made such a big difference in Norway, where there was more control, more oversight of right-wing groups and a body count higher than both of the shootings in the last month combined.

 

See, the Norwegians just have a better work ethic.

...

roachboy,

Now you're just playing word games. Come on, stop rubbing it on my thigh, big guy.

The gun problem and the redneck militia problem are two separate entities, my good man.

You can go ahead and Waco the shit outta some hillbillies with stockpile of rusty AKs. Hell, they want a war.

And you can be a militia member without a gun, but having a gun doesn't make you a militia member. At least I hope not.

Since you've obviously got a solution that'll somehow impact the millions of guns already "on the street," lay it out for me.

How are you going to prevent gun crime with new laws and restrictions? How are you going to limit access and usage?

Door to door? Maybe use some War on Drugs tactics? Maybe justify it under some Homeland Security purpose?

I'm curious. We can even say every gun shop in America was just sucked up into a blackhole. No more new guns.

As DC, Chicago and southern California have shown, areas of the US with gun restrictions still suffer from crime.

Solutions, people. Let's talk solutions.

 

Norway was one incident.

As plan pointed out after Aurora, there have been numerous "killing sprees" around the world....

......and as I pointed out, 1/3 of which were in the US.

 

Rumor has it the US is a big country.

 

So its not a gun culture, it is geography?

 

Your numbers are suspect since you're not including some pretty horrific incidents, including all sorts of fun in Mexico, Afganistan, Iraq and countries where these things just don't get reported, like Nigeria.

But Norway has ALL the things that roachboy wants - stronger gun control, ever-present oversight of the far right and a culture that abhors violence (for the most part). So it's not so much an outlier as a reposte.
--- merged: Aug 6, 2012 at 5:29 PM ---

"Big" can also mean a large population.

Russia also has occassionally gun violence. Or maybe those guys in Ekaterinaburg just fell on those bullets.

 

Plan's numbers (not mine) would not have included either Tucson or this latest attack....6 deaths were not enough to make the list.

 

Let's make this thread less about my morbid sarcasm and more about your revolutionary solution to rampage shootings in the United States.

Some say that gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it harder for sober people to own cars. Just kinda-sorta similar.

 

I dont have solutions (well, I might have a few), but a national dialogue w/o all the rhetoric and among those who are better positioned to offer solutions might be a good place to start. Not just gun control, but all of the underlying causes of gun violence....mental health policies, education policies, policies impact children and families, growing extremism, religious intolerance.....

Nothing should be off the table.

But that was dismissed as a "Miss America "healing the world" approach (more sarcasm, I presume)

​

​

 

gee, folks...so there's some loopy idea abroad that if laws that curtail access to and use of guns don't stop all gun-related crimes, then what's the point? where did that come from? and the idea that curtailing fascist speech and organizations doesn't stop absolutely everyone from declaring their own private race war that therefore no limitation should every be placed on fascist speech? what a fine idea. worked really well in--o i dunno---weimar, that. but i digress.

the response to you, plan 9, was to your goofy suggestion that gun control about about an inanimate object. it's about the procurement and use of the object. this is not rocket science. the argue as you were has a nice old name: sophistry.

in terms of the tonz of gunz already out there thanks in significant measure to the political actions of those fine ultra-right assholes at the nra...this does not seem an insurmountable problem, does it? i mean you could think of measures to reduce the tonz of gunz yourself, were you so inclined. it's not that hard.

i think they'd likely have to be coupled with clamping down on the militia set who've been waiting for the black helicopters to come since before ok city.

but maybe it's simpler than that. maybe the mainstream political right should pay the consequences for getting into bed with the whackjobs at the nra. maybe holding these assholes to account for the outcomes of their policies would be nice. but hey, it didn't happen after 2008 so why should it happen now? but were it to happen, that'd change the political climate pretty directly and maybe make it more difficult for these people to crawl out from under their intellectual rocks.

at the same time, we all know that the u.s. of a. is the world' largest exporter of small arms and ammunition and that they have a Problem with this whole human rights thing getting in the way of that sector of the economy raking in the green. and we all know that here in the land of cowboy capitalism it's profit uber alles. guns are big bidness. what's a little massacre now and then in the face of that?

 

If I wanted to save lives I would ban alcohol, which is responsible for 12000 highway deaths a year and is also involved in 40% of all violent crimes. That would also reduce a lot of gun violence as well. Is the nra led by a bunch of right wing ehackjobs? Absolutely. But that doesnt mean they are wrong about strong criminal laws and legal ownership. I wouldnt give them a penny because they only support right wingers, but to say that banning guns would stop violent crime and take the current guns off the street is simply not true.

 

In the UK I have only seen one gun (it was aimed at my good self by a policeman), I don't want or expect to see another - they are killing machines and I fail to see the attraction - but if they were around familiarity would, naturally, breed contempt.

The US especially, by having the right to bear arms, has to expect confused/ignorant/crazy mass murderers as a 'legitimate' consequence of its constitution, and from what I've seen the US has more than its fair share of confused, ignorant and crazy people to start with.

 

I think there is a shortcoming in the way that things are reported. At the very least, having hype and attention without intelligent, analytical thought about the factors that contribute to such deviant behavior serves very little purpose.
I don't think there will be any real decline in the occurrence of tragic acts being committed until more emphasis is put on understanding behavior, including the various factors that affect the development of behavior. As idealist as it sounds, I think Society should strive for something more effective than fear of punishment as a deterrent.

 

You know, I will never understand football hooligans. It's a fucking game with a ball and a bunch of wankers will fight because you are wearing the wrong colors in the wrong neighborhood. Plus, the game is stupid. But I guess getting stomped and crippled really isnt a big deal.