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Politics What is happening????

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by pan6467, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Well, you don't want to become like Scandinavia.
     
  2. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    How so? Do tell.
     
  3. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    The unions got greedy compared to the other low income workers who vote and resent the benefits others get. The unions didn't do a good job explaining that this is what the future would look like without the unions. The anti-union conservatives did paint a picture of a future without unions as one where you would get a little raise and be able to switch jobs.

    And yet nobody is around now to show that it is the owners that got a huge pay increase and the workers are fighting Hunger Games style to keep their jobs.

    There are some teachers that gave the opposition plenty of ammunition too. If there is no way to fire a teacher for not doing their job, then they will use that as an excuse to bring down the entire system...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I was being ironic. I was referring to the fact that Scandinavian workers are unionized at a percentage above the G8 average, some countries by more than double. The U.S.? About half.

    Sweden, for example, has over 80% unionized workers, plus stronger teacher tenure than the U.S., yet it remains in the top 20 for education. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if other Scandinavian countries had stronger tenure as well.
     
  5. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, that's what I was saying then...sure there are benefits and then some.
    But the US has a large & influential segment of society that wants to submarine the Unions, it interferes with certain powers. (and income)

    And when the Unions go overboard, then they feed right into the agenda of abuse that their opposition touts and leverages against them.

    I'm sure you know the US has an ambiguous corporate oligarchy, which does not hesitate to support it's own gains.
    This has been around for decades...there is a reason even Eisenhower cautioned against the Military-Industrial complex.
    It's just that now, it's gone beyond that and the original Manufacturing base...Utilities, Media, Tech, Pharma, Telecomm, etc and so on...

    And during the Nixon, Reagan and GWB years and during recessions and especially The Great Recession,
    they have empowered their position and agendas...undermined entities that contradicted them like Unions...and leveraged their influence thru law.
    The "at will" clause that many states are now allowing, gives even more strength to them and chokes the Unions even more.

    Now, at the same time, I will say, there have some good benefits...America has kept chugging and then some
    but I'm also not unaware of the slow whittling of power and priv loss of the avg. citizen.

    Between the recent SCOTUS rulings and previous law enacted...there does need to have a new "Bill of Rights" established
    and another which clarifies and opens the dynamics of voting.

    But this is not going to happen while the GOP is in power, they know it's against their base and ability to influence.
    They know who butters their bread.
    Not that Dems are uncorrupted...they are and then some...but they aren't the jail bitches that the GOP has become.
    The Dems problem is they are unorganized, spineless and indecisive. (or at least the great mass of them are...there are some with spine)

    Unions will only gain back influence, if the corporate powers that be overstep their own, go overboard and lose influence due to that.
    What's the flavor of the day??
     
  6. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    China is starting to show more indicators of a pending avalanche. (Example - Link)
    Maybe in a year or so their bubble will pop.

    It's not just real estate...there's movement also by the higher ranks to CYA...get their families out of certain investments.

    After the bubble pops, it will be significantly weakened...and there will be some big players in jail or executed.
     
  7. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    The problem was never that the unions went overboard, it's that they forgot where their power came from and for a while sided with the wrong side.
    The very people who are now ripping them down.
    The problem is not that the unions have too many benefits,it's that they have what everyone should have.
    The union's are the only political block big enough to fight the Koch brothers et.al.
    If the unions get any weaker this country will fail.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    The Great Recession killed any real momentum of the unions, which were heading downhill anyway.
    And the GOP which gained power in the States and Governors, attempted to put a nail in its coffin.
    To "save" the economy, generate income and supposedly "create" and "save" jobs...government gave leeway to the corporations.
    "At will" laws to allow immediate termination, even "work-arounds" if they want to remove you because of the classic restrictions (race, creed, handicap, etc...)

    Also laws not allowing unions within the govt's own jurisdiction and staff.

    I disagree with you...they went overboard, leveraged their position at times of advantage to build their own coffers
    and get the members benefits that went too far...often making them a target in times of need and lack of resources.
    I've been in unions myself...some are good and necessary...some are bloated.
    They aren't a target just because the GOP is opposed to them...they're also a target too because of their own excesses.
    And their members benefits are a target because of a lack of ability to support them or they see a pool of money.

    Which is not to say I disagree with them and I do see the very important need for them.
    You need to protect the staff, but you also can't anchor and drown the company.
    There is a balance.

    The Dems have done a piss-poor job of messaging and their Dems own desire to make money
    ...and the GOP has gotten the upper-hand with the rhetoric and mindset.
    If the Unions are going to save themselves...and the mission of actually helping the employees.
    Then they are going to have to regain the message...and undermine the idea that businesses need EVERY advantage, including overloading their workers.

    The unions can't rely on the Dems anymore, they are unreliable. (spineless, wishy-washy, disorganized and money hungry themselves)
    They need to re-surge themselves...change the mindset.
    Now is the time to strike...the "story" is now starting to lean to the abuses and excesses of the corporations.
    But it's up to them.

    And they need to check themselves...
     
  9. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Only 1 in 10 U.S. workers belongs to a union, half of what it was thirty years ago. (And even then it was still only a quarter of the union membership of Sweden.)

    Unions are already powerless in the wider economy. They only have power in certain sectors, where they are much maligned.

    Bloated or dysfunctional unions as an argument against unions is kind of like bloated/dysfunctional corporations and political parties as arguments against business and government. The world would kind of suck without business and government, so you take the bad with the good and you try to improve things.

    The same goes for unions. Bad things can happen to workers who aren't unionized.

    What are unions? They're essentially a political counterpoint for workers against companies and government. Companies may say they serve their employees, and governments may say they serve their constituents, but let's face it: Companies and governments care more about each other than about the individual working constituent. This is because most of the power belongs between the two.

    This is where unions come in. They give political power where it may be absent or severely lacking.

    I once heard a good way of considering the existence of unions: "Unions are the result of bad management." If businesses and governments were doing such a good job regarding the needs of workers and constituents, there would be no need for unions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2014
    • Like Like x 4
  10. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    A good, but not great, day for the environment today with the Supreme Court upholding most of the EPA's program to regulate emissions.

    While not a total victory, a 7-2 vote keeps the major polluters on the hook to clean up their act, With a warning from the Court to the EPA not to overdo it and ruling 5-4 that smaller polluters cant be held to the same stringent standards (but can still be regulated).

    Next up later this week - Hobby Lobby and the ACA contraception mandate. I dont think it will fare so well.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Yep - and when companies force you to resign...they have you sign an agreement for your ~2 weeks residual pay. (which you NEED now)
    There's a confidentially clause...where if you say ANYTHING, you will have to repay back your money.

    Coverups, Corporate CYA is the long-time thing to do for them.

    This is global...not just the US, but America has made a specialty of it.

    Evil comes in all shapes & forms.
    Probably the only way to do anything without damaging yourself, is to anonymously warn regulatory bodies.
    But often they won't followup...or because it's ambiguous, they won't see the "proof" until it's huge and obvious.
    And by that time, much damage has been done.
    And there are many who won't witness or "can't"
    So there is no true teeth to any settlement or penalty.

    BTW...if corporations are people.
    Then leadership should be going to jail crime done by intent. (or encouragement)
    All's fair.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2014
  12. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Hobby Lobby decision announced: 5-4 against the ACA employer-provided contraception mandate.

    But not as bad as it could be.


    The Court holds that corporations (including for-profit corporations) are "persons" for purposes of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. The additional question was whether corporations can have a religious "belief" within the meaning of RFRA. On that question, the Court limited its holding to closely held corporations, leaving for another day whether larger, publicly traded corporations have religious beliefs.

    So Hobby Lobby and similar family owned or closely held corporations can refuse to include contraception coverage in their employer-sponsored plans. But large, publicly traded corporations still have the mandate.

    Kennedy, with the majority, provided a suggested remedy in his separate opinion....that the government (taxpayers) could provide the contraception coverage where those closely held corporations opt out on religious grounds.

    Or that is how I read it.
     
  13. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Will the Players finally pay their fair share??

    Sure, they have more angles, opportunities and write-offs than most everyone else...all to reduce their tax burden.
    Real Estate, Capital Gains, etc...
    Subsidies, Incorporating in areas with less tax rates (even if they don't live or do business there), etc...
    Tax lawyers and accountants to make sure every nook & cranny is not missed.

    And yet...some decide that's NOT enough.
    They want it all...and more.
    The nation and its resources should be for free (or less) and everything they make should be for themselves alone.

    This is not just a US thing...but a global issue.

    I don't mind if people are rich...hey, wash in your money...whatever.
    I do mind if you're not paying your share. As agreed to by law.

    Now, most of those "unpatrioting" are typically citizens that truly have lives in other nations.
    So effectively they are double-taxed.
    And that I understand, they're using the resources over there, not here. It's bad law that hasn't changed...and should.
    But more, at least in volume of money, are keeping it just "because".

    Question is will they enforce it??
    My bet...they will, the Obama administration has a habit of enforcing laws on the books.
    (only one I know they're "ignoring" is pot-laws, but that is put on hiatus as they've formally asked the FDA to put its status on review )
    Oh well, just another thing the richies and their supporters to be pissed off at Obama for. :rolleyes:

    From what this says, other countries are moving forward too...there may be no where to hide soon.
    Unless they all want to live in some tiny country.

     
  14. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Big move by the FCC today to make wifi more accessible to schools and libraries, but still a long way to go. And, of course, the Republicans on the Commission opposed.

     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    interesting...and spot on IMHO.

    Welcome to the world of unintended consequences and Chaos Theory

    I asked you not to tell me that... ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
    • Like Like x 1
  16. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Nice to be not eating poison for a change... :rolleyes:
    And nice the web can be put to a good use too.

    Seriously...while I'm not very sensitive to what I eat...I do appreciate some discretion.
    I don't think it's bad to make the food industry leap thru hoops a bit
    and I don't mind making them respect what they are feeding us more.

    God forbid you should want your customers to be healthier...and not gross...or grossed out.
    Not uber-healthy...just don't put gobs of "questionable" stuff in our food.
    This is not the time for short-term gain & profit.

     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2014
  17. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    [​IMG]

    Happy 49th anniversary to Medicare/Medicaid - the nation's first public health insurance signed into law on July 30, 1965.

    Despite all your faults, abuses, and room for improvement, you remain one of the most successful and efficient social programs in US history -- costs have risen more slowly that private health insurance while providing far greater financial protection and higher patient satisfaction.

    Soon there will be day when all Americans will benefit from a similar health care delivery system....the ACA is just the first step.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    The House did something right today by overwhelmingly passing a compromise veterans health bill in response to the recent VA scandals.

    In addition to hopefully shortening the wait time for veterans seeking treatment by adding more doctors and medical and allowing veterans to go outside the VA for treatment under some circumstances, it has reasonably tough provisions to hold VA employees accountable for cover ups and incompetence.

    Many Tea Party types who initially opposed any expansion of VA services w/o offsets came around to support "one of the biggest expansions of government since the GOP takeover of the House."


    The bill should pass the Senate and be signed by Obama by the end of the week.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Yep, and I'm now getting calls galore from contractors looking to bid and win. :)
    Man, they're a bunch of whores...or is it pimps and I'm the whore.
     
  20. Street Pattern

    Street Pattern Very Tilted

    The more the merrier, no?