Trayvon Martin.

So is it lawful to shoot someone whom you were following and who then proceeded to break your nose once you confronted them?
Sounds pretty reasonable to me. The breaking the nose part, I mean.

 

No.

If I am on the jury and hear the evidence as we know it, there is nothing in this case that supports Zimmerman's claim of self-defense or SYG. And, now we are starting to hear reports of "new witnesses" supporting Zimmerman's story, a moth after the incident. And now Trayvon is guilty of having an empty bag of dope at school - and that is important, why??? They have to be kidding. Perhaps it is too late for real justice in this case, I hope not.

 

In all honesty, I think the fact that certain racial groups of people have put a bounty on this man, and IF TRUE, that a certain African American director publicized Zimmerman's address, to me those actions are indefensible and racist in and of them selves BEGGING for the very racially driven vigilantism that Zimmerman himself is accused of. 2 wrongs do not make a right, These 2 actions if true are IMHO far worse than what Zimmerman did, because you are promoting a lynching, the physical and mental harm of a man that should stand trial, regardless of whether or not the evidence may show him guilty. He should stand a trial with a jury of his peers as guaranteed by our Constitution.

The reason I quote Ace is, I agree that the police should arrest him, and perhaps hold him without bail just to protect him from the radical racists that have put bounties on him, given out his address and so on.

As for getting out of control real fast, if there are bounties and his address is being advertised then it already has. We tend to show more respect for accused child molesters than we are Zimmerman.

I am still of the belief what he has done is cold blooded murder and perhaps that is my prejudice, because I don't feel anything short of an unknown video camera or station wagon full of nuns and priests are eyewitnesses and come forth all of a sudden, sadly, will change my predisposition of Zimmerman's guilt. BUT IT IS NOT MINE TO MAKE.

I feel ANY witnesses coming forth now are publicity hounds looking for 15 minutes of fame and know talk show news money will be floating their way, NOT for justice. I also feel a lot of evidence and "personal, pre incident private life things that are irrelevant are being promoted by BOTH sides so that a fair trial may not be possible.

To me the other side is being as racist as I accused the GOP to be, esxcept for the fact the GOP has the radio microphones and can keep repeating their spin ad nauseum.

So in the end jailing him and holding him might be the safest thing police can do at the present time.

 

This.

 

The extremist New Black Panther Party (no association w. the original Black Panther Party, look it up) placed a bounty on the man. But they are extremists, not to be mistaken for average.
Spike Lee. I don't understand why he did that. I suppose he is human and really pissed off. You should know a thing or two about that, pan.

Personally, I don't like all of the attention being on George Zimmerman when it was the police who let him go.
--- merged: Mar 27, 2012 10:54 AM ---

That the police may have made a story up rather than taking him to answer questions? So this is all racism and has nothing to do with Stand Your Ground. How convenient.

I guess I am right in thinking that you can't really discuss these things with gun people because they aren't interested in discussing any negative consequences of the results of their 'having their rights.' No compromise. Cold, dead fingers. They want to insist that there are no negative consequences - pure black and white thinking. And because of this, you guys leave those of us in the middle with no choice but to oppose it all.

 

I get the difference between the 2 Panther Parties, but putting a bounty on the guys head? Granted only 10 grand but it's still 10 grand too much.

I can in some ways understand that....lol He just has more access to do things.

 

I've seen a lot of places trying to make a big deal out of this today, which I don't get. This has been mentioned from the beginning since the story broke.

 

which organizations have an interest served by attempting to smear trayvon martin?

just thinking out loud, here.

 

2nd amendment groups are the only thing that comes to mind, but that also leads you to question if they are smears or truths, and are they relevant or not.

 

or what if there is a conservative smear campaign?

What You Need To Know About The Smear Campaign Against Trayvon Martin (1995-2012)

 

yo, my god he had tattoos?!

 

Yeah, the smear campaign has been really ugly, and includes false information, as well as treating old information as new (the busted nose).

Of course, never mind that the old information rehashed as new actually makes Zimmerman's initial statement to the police, as well as his father's subsequent letter, false. Unless he likes to moonwalk around houses on his way to his car, the fact that he had a busted nose and grass stains on his back from a struggle in between two houses actually quite significantly disproves the claim made by him that he just got out of his car to see a street name and that he was walking back to his car when he was attacked.

Not that it should matter, anyways. Trying to find legal culpability is different from the obvious moral one.

 

I have repeatedly stated that I do not believe Zimmerman has a legitimate SYG defense claim. Nor, do I believe he has any legitimate self-defense claim.

Not necessarily you (because I still don't know what you think), but some take the irreconcilable position that Zimmerman got off because of SYG (implying if not for SYG he would have been arrested), and that he should have been arrested even given the SYG. This is as clear as mud to me!?! SYG was inappropriately used by the police for whatever the reason - and those calling for a change in the law or its reversal have lost focus on the real issues. I am reminded of Don Quixote and tilting at windmills. go ahead and slay that dragon.


--- merged: Mar 27, 2012 at 6:09 PM ---

In my very first post I indicated my concerns regarding the politicization of this issue and how I would be disturbed by it. We have "worms" coming out on both sides. For every person attacking the SYG by any means, will be met with people who will defend it by any means. It is far to easy after the fact to paint Trayvon as more of a threat than he was to support a political position. Again, this is getting out of control - for no real reason. Leaders and those in authority needed to get this resolved asap. Delays have not been helpful.
--- merged: Mar 27, 2012 at 6:12 PM ---

Just be careful how you describe the smear campaign. It is not a conservative campaign. It is not orchestrated. The NRA has not made any official statement on this case one way or the other. Most conservatives have taken a neutral stance, similar to that of Obama. Those that defend SYG generally say it does not apply in this case.

 

ace--first off, as an aside, have you ever read don quixote? if not, a treat awaits you. and i don't think you can understand don quixote without reading the book. read the first 10 chapters or so and you'll see. he reads too much in the way of outmoded books, you see, and really believes that the world is as the books say it is...worth a look.

as for the smear campaign--there obvious are attempts to smear trayvon martin in order to defend this stupid cowboy law and to defend the police department. i do not know its organizational origins and am at this point agnostic about the question. but i expect it'll come out---what's clear is that a bunch of conservatives running around saying such things is, in the eyes of the wider public, tying a noose around their neck, standing on a chair and getting ready to jump. so maybe it'd be better for the right if there were a central organization so it could tell people to shut the fuck up.

 

It is clear to me this is not a liberal/conservative issue. It is not a gun rights issue. It is not a hoodie issue. It is not a what Tryvon may have done at school issue. And even given the claim of Zimmerman it is not a SYG issue. Attempts to turn this into more than what it is, comes from many fronts. If I hear something dumb from a conservative, I will be among the first in line to call it dumb or whatever it is. Let's have the same standard for liberals. If you recall the 1963 Birmingham Church Bombing, killing 4 girls, one of the first statements from the chief of police, Bull Conner, was that he thought blacks (not the actual term used) blew up the church to provoke an emotional response. So, yes we are going to have people do and say dumb things. But, this can be avoided/minimized if justice is fast tracked in the Trayvon matter.
--- merged: Mar 27, 2012 at 8:53 PM ---

I went through a phase when I wanted to read the most highly renowned classic literature, I probably should re-read it - I am sure I would get a better understanding of its themes today than about 30 years ago.

 

I did address that in post 144 as a what if, before any info on any drugs was released.

I think post 183 describes my best opinion on the subject to date.

I do want to add one more thing. Obama's camp is many things BUT they are pretty thorough and try to make things so they won't blow up in Obama's face. I am sure before he commented that his people did every investigation they could into Trayvon, before he was allowed to state and imply Trayvon could have been his son. (Which did blow up in his face as the GOP wanted to make that a racism issue, the racism issue didn't take so now all the GOP has left is to make Trayvon look as stereotypical inner city as they possibly can.)

 

The lead homicide detective probing the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin wanted the Florida neighborhood watch volunteer slapped with manslaughter charges from the get-go.

Investigator Chris Serino, of the Sanford Police Department, expressed doubt in George Zimmerman’s account of how the shooting went down, ABC News reported Tuesday.

Serino wanted Zimmerman, 28, tossed behind bars, but the state Attorney’s Office said there was not enough evidence to make an arrest, multiple sources told ABC News.

In an affidavit taken the night of the Feb. 26 killing, Serino stated he was unconvinced by Zimmerman’s version of events in which he claimed self-defense, the network reported.

Read more: Homicide detective Chris Serino says he wanted George Zimmerman slapped with manslaughter charges in shooting death of Trayvon Martin - NY Daily News

 

Over the weekend I caught part of this program called Radio Smart Talk on the local NPR affiliate, which I think some of you might be interested in hearing. It's an hour long but the entire show is about this case and it's very interesting (though perhaps not the audience call-ins). It goes into some of the problems with the law and how it relates to this case. If what they have to say is accurate I don't think it's reasonable arguable that there is not a problem with the florida law.

I think one of the most interesting things brought up is the idea that there might not be a satisfactory middle ground between allowing citizens to arm themselves for protection and preventing misuse of force in cases like this. In other words there might not a way to prevent both misapplications of deadly force and victimization that would be prevented by armed citizens and how you feel about the law has more to do with whether you care more about people not being able to protect themselves or people occasionally being killed unjustifiably in ambiguous circumstances.