Food the service industry, "if you dont like it then..."

I realize that and have been to many, many restaurants with a mandatory service charge, especially in the UAE. Thankfully, I have rarely come across bad service in the restaurants I frequent. Next to that, I'm the type of patron that always leaves a tip on top of the mandatory charge.

However, the mandatory service charge is something that needs to be handled by quality management. I've had one instance in a Chili's restaurant in Abu Dhabi a few years back where our waiter was craptastically bad. The restaurant had a mandatory service charge but when I brought up my dissatisfaction with the waiter's service to the manager, he didn't skip a beat and waived it. Not only that, he also gave us a 20% discount on the bill.

If the bad service didn't cause enough damage with the customer, insisting on the service charge simply because it's "mandatory" surely makes it final.

Again, from a customer and business point of view this makes no sense. Why this actually has to be explained, specifically in a sector of the service industry that is hugely reliant on repeat customers... is completely beyond me.

 

"if you don't like it, leave"

Lets hope that customers of this business take that advice. I had heard rumours that the economy was tough in the US too, but this restaurant must think not, they can afford to openly tell customers to go fuck themselves and think they can stay in business.

Whatever the legality of the actions (in the UK it is not legal to detain someone for over a certain length of time, even if they have stolen from you, but I dont know US law that well), I hope we all agree that it would be good for this restaurant to go out of business and the lout who bigs himself up by intimidating women and children with threats and aggression is reduced to finding work as a lavatory cleaner.

And I was passing by the town where this two bit bum has to clean the public toilets, I would deliberately piss all over the floor right in front of him and tell him to get down on his hands and knee's and clean it up. And if he doesnt find his new line of work to his liking.... "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, LEAVE!"

 

While my own experience was opposite, although I have maybe spent a total of 10 weeks in America in my life.

I found customer service in America was much better than I was used to in the UK. I found staff more friendly (to the point I was embarassed at first before I got used to it and realised people werent being too personal it was just the style) and more helpful than UK. I don't have experience of every place of course, and I didnt tend to go to posh restaurants that charge you 17% just to take the food you order from the kitchen to the table (I wonder if they would drop the charge if you offered to walk into kitchen and serve yourself)

But anyway, my impression of my short stay in a small part of the US was that "If you dont like it, leave" was not the norm, and not the ordinary attitude of service industries like bars, pubs and restaurants.

 

There is a massive difference between customers being thrown out for being rude and over-the-top, and customers not being allowed to leave for not accepting a gratuity charge after the restaurant's servers were rude and inattentive.

And on "the best part about being a business owner": That line of thinking reminds me of a particular episode of Kitchen Nightmares... Ramsay almost slapped the guy who spouted the same nonsense.

While a business owner has the right to do whatever with his business, it's simply something you never do. Ever. I've seen that attitude with many idiots in the business world who have a completely wrong image of running a business, but I still can't believe when I come across such thinking.

It breaks my brain when such a horrible attitude on business, operations, management and customer relations is being defended. It's better that I leave this thread.

 

I have lived in Europe for 34 years. I have eaten out maybe 1000 times, in all kinds of places

I have never been charged for a bread roll that is laid out before the meal, nor have I ever known anyone who has. Any time it is served (at least in the UK) before your starter, it is complimentary. (and Ive never paid for it any time Ive eaten out on France, Germany, Netherlands, Spain...)

Either you're basing this on a misconception of things youve read/heard, or if youve personally had this experience, you must eat in the wrong places.

 

I haven't seen anyone here bring up what I consider to be a very pertinent aspect of gratuities overall, so I will. I don't know what wait staff is paid in other countries but here in the US, server wages are generally about 1/2 of the Federal minimum wage (Federal minimum wage is currently $7.25/hr). The reality is, restaurant clientele are expected to make up the difference between what an employer is legally required to pay his servers and a living wage. This is especially evident in the case of mandatory gratuities and as far as I'm concerned, it flies in the face of any notion that tips are an amount we add for better than average service.

Why should we, as consumers, be mandated or required or even expected to make up the shortfall in the wages of someone else's employee? The answer is, of course, to change the law and require restaurant owners to pay at least the minimum wage. Tips would then become what they were always intended to be. Tips for good service.

 

Cyn, I've never argued that a business owner can't do whatever the hell he/she wants to do. I'm talking about effective and quality business practices. Every halfwit knows that a high level of customer service is the single biggest feature of the service industry. If the customer isn't happy with the way you do things, they go somewhere else. Nor do you, as a business owner, ever discourage potential customers from visiting your establishment. Even moreso when very outgoing and recklessly-spending people tend to move around in groups. Mandatory gratuity does exactly that.

From a legal and subjective-morals point of view, you are right. From the marketing/sales point of view, it is indefensible behavior.

"We paid our bill for what we ate, we paid the bill."

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You seem to misinterpret what I was talking about. I haven't addressed the specific case at all. I was talking generally about mandatory service and gratuity charges, and the (il)logic behind them.

Mate, I gotta agree with SF there. I've been to many South East Asian and European countries, and likely dined in more places than SF has. What you described has never occurred to me and I can't say I know of anybody this has happened to, either.

 

Yeah, I agree on the bill aspect. If it's stated and you order, then you accept the costs.

My focus is on the management's idiocy and about mandatory service/gratuity charges.

 

I'd have paid it like many have stated and never returned. I'd likely have also gone directly to my computer and (again as many have suggested) made sure I posted my dislike on every site I could find.

I do question whether or not it's legal to confine someone against their will. The fact that they were refusing to pay the entire check is likely a civil matter, they clearly state they were willing to pay the major portion. I think they would lose in smalls claims court since the menu states the 17% charge. But once they dispute the amount I think the issue changes from criminal to civil. My guess is the police would probably tell the restaurant they could not detain the individuals but to obtain as much identification as possible, license plates, names etc... I remember a case in Oregon where one young man told another he couldn't leave a house until his friend showed up to "ask" about some money the first kid owned the soon to be arriving "friend." The kid was charged with 2nd degree kidnapping and it stuck.

Of course we're talking Texas not Oregon so the restaurant owner may have had the right to shoot them for not paying up in full for all I know.

 

Maybe the answer is to go to better restaurants. In my experience, restaurants with a great menu, top notch chef, and a skilled and attentive wait staff, don't need to charge a mandatory gratuity for any patron or party, despite the size. Tips are generous because diners are satisfied and then some.

A restaurant who posts and charges a mandatory gratuity has undoubtedly been forced into the practice as a result of having to "suffer" the consequences of too many dissatisfied customers. If nothing else, the practice is probably a red flag as to what you can expect your dining experience to be.

 

I thought about that while out to dinner tonight. What if the bill came to $1000? That would make the total bill $1170 and the dinners willing to pay the $1000. The restaurant has now gotten so much bad press I'm certain $170 in advertisements will not make up for that. And I seriously doubt any place named La Fisherman is in the $165 a plate price range. Management here really screwed this up in my opinion.

Plus I would so not be happy to be the officer police dispatched to deal with that crap. I'm not even sure you could, as an officer, make a determination on the scene that a "theft of service" charge would stick. The dinners claim the service was really bad and they're willing to pay for the product (i.e. the food.) How bad does the service have to be to be considered not service? I remember years ago listening to a sheriff deputy go off in the squad room after being sent out to deal with a motel guest who refused to pay for his night stay. Turns out the room they gave him and would not or could not change had no heat, no hot water and a smoke alarm that loudly beeped every 5 mins all night long. The motel owner insisted the man be charged with a crime and the deputy told him "I wouldn't pay for that room. You want paid sue him for it... keep in mind I will make it a point, my life's mission to testify as to the condition of the room. We good here? Good. In the future please do not call 911 unless you have an actual emergency. It's a crime to call 911 unless you have an emergency." I think I'd likely have a discussion something like that with the restaurant owner or manger.

 

Others have made the points I was trying to in a more sensible way

The police in this case or any like it won't want to get involved and will just encourage the two parties to sort it out. It's a civil (unpaid invoice) type of thing rather than theft

Whether the owner wants to apply the charge he probably could argue in a court of law that the bad service the guys had was all they had a legal right to expect. Perhaps his thirty bucks would stand... But would you want to go to court to argue you had the right to charge 17 percent for bad service?

If you don't like it leave is a horrible attitude to have if you want to make a living in the service industry. Because the thing is a lot of people who might have been good customers instead... Leave

 

In my experience people call the police quite regularly for situations that basically fall into civil not criminal categories. This is not something the officers being sent out to, if they are sent, enjoy dealing with. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard of or been in involved with calls where one party wants to have another party charged for not paying for something they ordered or purchased. Often, least in Oregon, dispatch will not send an office out on such calls and if they do the responding officer is likely going to tell the caller "this is a civil matter and we're not your personal collection agency." Hell in most large cities in Oregon law enforcement no longer have the man power to respond to car break ins or basic burglaries. If you're in Portland Oregon and find some meth head has broke into your vehicle or home and removed your personal property if you call 911 they'll simply give you a web site and phone number to make your report. Here's a quote from the web site-

I can tell you even if you "press 1" because you "require a police officer at your location" there's a very good chance you're going to be told "there's no officer currently available to respond." They take your info over the phone and send you via mail, fax or e-mail a form to fill out and return and you'll probably never see a uniformed officer.

I can almost guaranty you in Oregon if you called 911 and told them you had customers refusing to pay a mandatory tip (sounds like an oxymoron to me) there's no way you'd get an officer to your location. You'd more likely get warned not to call 911 unless you have an actual emergency. And if you called a "non-emergency" number like the one in the web site quoted you'd be sent a police report to fill out and return yourself.