The lethality of .22's

I think the redeeming quality of a .22 is the CHEAPNESS of it. I got a bunker of Mosins, but perhaps my funnest is the Polish Wz .22 cal trainer. Just cause it doesnt take off a shoulder and kids can shoot it too. The more the higher calibers go up in price, the more .22s I buy. Then for SHTF its a good hunting round.

The only drawback is light primer strikes or duds. Not so reliable for defense or offense for that matter.

 

I personally know of many rabbits, hares, foxes, feral cats and wild dogs that would argue that .22's are deadly - If they were still alive, that is.
Shot placement, people.

 

Yeaaah.

 

Like anything else it's less about the size of the projectile and more about shot placement.

 

Story time, kids.

Way back in '04, I had a buddy that had just landed back in the States after a tour in a Iraq. He was held up at gun point outside some convenience store in Ohio, resisted the mugger and was shot five times in the stomach at point blank range with a .22 LR handgun. The surgeon recovered four of the five slugs, left the fifth one lodged in his gut next to his spine. He took a couple months off GI Joe duties but eventually he was back to work, showing off his cool scar. He stated that the idea of being shot is a lot worse than actually being shot (by a .22, anyway). He further mentioned that the reason why he fell to the ground clutching his torso wasn't because of intense pain or physical incapacitation, merely surprise and mental shock.

He was lucky he didn't get zapped in the liver or another super-important organ. He's one of those "dude just won't die" stories, of course.

.22 LR should never be considered an appropriate self defense cartridge for those that have access to larger caliber weapons.

.38 Special with a modern JHP bullet is the daintiest round I would consider useful for self defense purposes.

 

No way bro, it was hecka lethal in The Unit http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/The_Unit#High_Standard_Sharpshooter_M

 

Brodawgimus, don't make me get StrangeFamous up in here to sail this sinking ship.

I'll have him mentioning IWI's line up of bear-stopping hardware and it's all over.

 

The .22 strikes again !
WWII vet kills would-be burglar with single shot | National & World News | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News

 

bs, not even a .22lr RIFLE, with its 300 fps increase in speed over what .22lrs get out of pistol barrels EVER penetrated the THINNEST kevlar vest ever sold. Back when RichDAvis first started Secondchance armor, he used 10-12 layers, I forget, and it stopped .22 rifle, .38, .45, .44 special, .32. 2.5, 380, but NOT .22 mag rimfire rifle or 357;'s or 9mm's. Most vests today are level IIA, not IIIA, by the way,, btw. The .22lr from a pistoll has 70-90 ftlbs, depending upon the load and the barrel length. From a rifle, it has 120=160 grs, depending upon the load. the Stingers, from CCI benefit greatly from the longer barrel of a rifle, but do't add much to power from a pistol.

Every year, .22's kill morre people in the US than any other caliber, and most times, it kills more than all other calibers COMBINED, to include shotgun shells. Taht is becausee over 6 BILLION rds of .22lr are made or imported here, every year, more than all other caliber ammo combined, to include shotshells.

 

I would prefer a .22 pistol over a .25 or .32 as a rule. The .22 makes for an excellent boot, ankle or pocket pistol. Loaded with hyper velocity HP ammunition it should be effective at close range using double and triple taps. .22 bounce around inside a person like a pin ball creating extremely erratic wound channels.

As a new member I can not yet post links, however if y0u would like to view some excellent information on this topic log on to Youtube and search
9mm vs .45 vs Rifle A Dr's View of Gunshot Wound

 

Sure, a .22lr can be "lethal" , as mentioned it results in a buncha fatalities. That is not the same thing as being effective in a defensive situation. Their secumbing to infection or complications the next hour/ day/ week won't do you much good in the next few seconds when it matters to you. A .22lr rn from a rifle does reach a level of penetration similar to typical duty/ defensive pistol rounds.( not that I'm advocating penetration as a sole or main comparison, just sayin' in the case) A .22WMR from a full size pistol does provide some interesting ballistics (40gr jhp @ 1300-1400fps). There is controversy within those who study such things , but more than one generally knowledagable research has considered such .22WMR to overlap into the range of lower end .38spl hp's. .22WMR from derringers, mini-revolvers , and 2in bbls is just a noise maker.

Yes , a .22lr from a "normal" pistol ( ie reasonable sized, at least plinking accuraccy) is preferable to a .25acp . However I am rather outspoken in liking .32's . I consider .32's to be closely comparable to a .380 of similar bbl length, with better accuraccy and control.

If I were to hear a bump and grab a .22lr rifle , or 5.5in .22wmr , I wouldn't feel unarmed, but the usual .38+p, 9mm, (and everything larger) would be a choice on purpose.

 

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Most experts that discuss the topic state that rimfire cartridges are not reliable enough for self-defense purposes. Dud % is too high.

 

.25acp = .25 Automatic Colt Pistol = 6.35Browning in Europe. Invented by John M. Browning in 1905. Sterotypical very small pistol, known as a vest pocket pistol in the day. High quality examples were mfg by Colt, Browning, Berretta, etc . A bizillion junk pistols were made also. Until the 1990's were commonly the single most popular pistol cal sold in the US , mainly because of very inexpensive pistols bought by otherwise non-gun people who wanted the cheapest gun, any gun.

.32acp aka 7.65mmBrowning Invented by John M. Browning in 1899 . For most of the 20th century in Europe was the standard police service round, analogus to the .38spl in the US . Also very popular in US (and worldwide), typically what in US was considered "pocket pistol" , meaning pockets of the loose suitcoats , and baggy pants pockets of the day. In the 1990's became available in very small pistols of the size typical of .25 autos , and almost instantly made the .25's obselete for use by knowledegable users as very small 'backup" guns. Used by James Bond in a WaltherPPK.

.380acp aka 9mm Browning Short aka 9mmKurtz aka 9x17, and probably some more also. Invented in 1908 by John M. Browning. Same bullet diameter as the standard 9mm (9x19) , but slightly shorter ctg casing, at much lower pessure and velocity. Historically offered in same/ similar pistols as the above .32acp. Had a major spike in popularity for a few years in the 1990's in the US in relativly largish high capacity guns aimed at CCW marketplace. More recently lots of newer designs offered in "very small" size.


An eternal debate of recent decades is the relative merits of .380's vs .38spl in small frame snubnoses. Some (many ?) of the people who pontificate on such things hold the .380 to be the minimum cal suitable for self defense on purpose.

Actually the US Military did purchase a number of M1903 (.32) and M1908(.380) Colts. There were issued to General officers, and also used by Intellegence and Special operations types in WWII. May very well have been some used by spooks in Vietnam era, but public documentation is scarce.

(Four)great grandad would have used probably a .36 cap&ball in John B. Hood's Brigade in the Civil War. Grandad almost died of Spanish Flu in OCS, and WWI ended before he recovered. During WWII dad occasionally was issued M1911, FIL used S&W .38spl.

 

Whoosh.

Thank you for posting the history of these archaic, obsolete cartridges.

And the .380 had a huge boost in popularity in the early 2010s as well.

See: Sig P238, Ruger LCP, everything else before the micro 9 craze.

 

While I wouldn't intentionally carry a .22, .25, .32 or .380 for personal protection anything is better than a nothing at all.

 

I would argue that a beer bottle or screwdriver would be far more effective than a .25 ACP pistol (both the cartridge and the actual pistol itself).

Harsh language would be a superior choice in many cases.

 

Ok ok you win~ even though a beer bottle or screwdriver isn't exactly nothing ....

 

Saw this story today. Clearly it must be fictional because it claims a man died from being shot with a .380. As everyone knows, anything less than 9mm simply won't get the job done so the dead man must have died from something else, perhaps from consuming a dorito taco bell taco with extra fire sauce.

Ex-cop accused of fatally shooting man at theater over texting | National & World News | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News

 

This is a picture of Bella Twin and her world record grizzly bear.

 

That's a pretty amazing & cool story, but I have to say she was extremely lucky.