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Politics The Elephant in the room...The GOP today

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, Aug 28, 2012.

Page 56 of 104
  1. Street Pattern

    Street Pattern Very Tilted

    Location:
    The American Midwest
    Probably it happens in places where a party has very little presence. As of 2000, there were about a dozen states with almost no Democratic state party organization. Supposedly, Howard Dean set out to remedy that when he was national chair.

    I didn't see that John Oliver segment, but I don't know of any major offices in 2014 where there weren't both Ds and Rs running.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2014
    Street Pattern, Nov 22, 2014
    #1101
  2. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    Most of piece was about ALEC but at the end he points out that 25% of the people are running unopposed and the ones he shows pictures of are Republicans.

     
    redravin, Nov 22, 2014
    #1102
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Street Pattern

    Street Pattern Very Tilted

    Location:
    The American Midwest
    Right, but he was talking about state legislative races across 50 states, including states and areas where the Democratic Party or the Republican Party barely exists. Moreover, most of the districts are drawn to be safe for one party or the other.

    Here in Michigan, we elected 38 state senators and 110 state representatives this year, and NONE of them were unopposed.
    No, the Rhode Island and Hawaii guys are Democrats. There might have been some others.
    --- merged: Nov 22, 2014 at 5:36 PM ---
    [moved to the end so as not to break up the discussion of unopposed candidates]

    "Messaging" ...

    As for "messaging" failing to change the color of the sky: the whole Ebola "crisis" occupied more attention/brainspace among the U.S. population than anything about the election. Republicans gained probably millions of votes as a direct result. Not for any intellectually defensible reason, but because (along with ISIS) it created a sense of danger. This surely turned a lot of the "independent" voters to cast Republican ballots this time. A great many studies have demonstrated how a person's views will swing wildly to the right when he feels threatened.

    Independents ...

    There is a notion, by the way, that "independent voters" are smart people who carefully pick and choose among candidates, but that's not true. Smart and knowledgeable people may split their tickets at times, but they tend to be tethered to a party. The people who switch wildly back and forth from election to election are the ones who know the least about what they're doing.

    Ambassador Bridge ...

    Here's a tangible example. The Ambassador Bridge between Detroit, Michigan and Windsor, Ontario belongs to an unscrupulous billionaire named Matty Maroun. This bridge was built in the 1920s and is totally inadequate to current needs.

    Maroun is constantly fighting off any effort to bust his monopoly. The Canadians are so sick of him that the Canadian government offered to pay THE WHOLE COST of a new bridge.

    To prevent this from happening, Maroun sponsored a statewide constitutional amendment in the 2012 election, which would basically prohibit the other bridge from being built. He had a huge ad campaign which made his proposal sound plausible, and he bought up endorsements from any group that would accept his money.

    Fortunately, he lost. But the shape of the vote on this was interesting, as shown in polling.

    Democrats voted overwhelmingly against it. And so did Republicans. But independents voted FOR it.

    Why? Part of it is that people who identify with a party know more of what is going on.

    Another part is that Democrats trust Democratic leaders who denounced Maroun, and Republicans trust Republican leaders who denounced Maroun. Independents don't trust anyone, so they were taken in by the ad campaign.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2014
    Street Pattern, Nov 22, 2014
    #1103
    • Like Like x 1
  4. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    rogue49, Nov 27, 2014
    #1104
  5. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the House
    The GOP was stirring, not trying to rouse... (???)

    House GOP Pushes New Rule to Boost Tax Changes

    trickle, trickle, trickle...

    Problem is with their "trickle-down" is they end up peeing on my shoe while telling me it's raining.

    But of course, they are doing this.
    Alter the rules a bit, skew the CBO...tax-cut.
    GOP wet dreams tax-cuts. :rolleyes:

    Here we go...get ready for a ride.
    It's going to be an interesting two years.

    IMHO, the GOP is knotting its own rope for its lynching in 2016.
    The storyline is already trending on how the recovery and upcoming boom is not translating to the middle-class.
    And then you're going to give more to the mega-corps and 1%??? Duh.
     
    rogue49, Dec 25, 2014
    #1105
    • Like Like x 1
  6. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    And another GOP tilt at the Windmills comes to the same end...

    IRS Investigation Finds No Link to White House

    And the feedback from the media?? *sound of crickets*
    They're too focused on Year End Summaries & Xmas good feeling presentations.

    GOP, "Some day we'll get you Obama...and your little dog too!! Curse you!!" :rolleyes:

    Meanwhile...the booming economy is shaping up to be a big bucket of water...

    *ahem* excuse the sarcasm...it's just that it's all like a big running joke from a sitcom...instead of getting anything serious done, wasting good time & money.
    I expect more from my government...and it's politicians.

    You've got ideas...great, throw them up on the board. Debate it, seriously.
    You want action...great, pass some bills that WILL pass and get signed...then I'll stop with the derision.

    I hope 2015 will be different.
    But I don't expect it.
     
    rogue49, Dec 28, 2014
    #1106
  7. RedSneaker

    RedSneaker Very Tilted

    Jeb Bush is the GOP running fore front? Are you effing kidding me? Gah
     
    RedSneaker, Dec 28, 2014
    #1107
  8. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    The Republican's Magical Mystery Tour (Starting Next Week)

    Ok, my question is this...will the public actually take the GOP to task for these positions??? (right or not)

    I don't always agree with Reich, but his listed items here are something to consider...

    But while they may upset those who are politically aware and understand the potential consequences either way,
    the typical American is oblivious to it.

    Voters vote mostly with their hearts...not their heads.
    Most don't keep track of the score...nor do they understand any potential gain or pain coming from actions.

    This is NOT to say they aren't intelligent (although some aren't) but for the most part, it's not in their day to day world-view,
    they just don't care or they don't want to deal with it.

    For every person who is aware and is concerned about the results...there are 9 that aren't aware nor think about the results.
    This is why we have representatives, they think.

    However, while they may be pissed and angry at what Congress as a whole is doing and how it affects them.
    They don't understand how their own vote for their own representative keeps the sad status-quo. (either Dem or GOP is irrelevant)

    So again, the public gets the govt they voted for.
    And again, the parties will go the way that gets them the most power and influence...to do the actions they want. (Dems or GOP, doesn't matter)

    I wonder if the internet is informing people more?
    Are they more aware?
    Or is it just more chaos and noise?

    It guess we just have to wait and see if the filter improves and goes one way or another.

    But I do know this...facts don't matter.
    Unless the news cycle makes it a controversy to scream about.
    And people actually remember it when voting... :rolleyes:

    I actually hope the GOP does good by us.
    It would be nice.
     
    rogue49, Dec 30, 2014
    #1108
  9. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    rogue49, Jan 2, 2015
    #1109
  10. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    It is called the Southern Strategy and it is working well. And the Democrats have yet to come up with a way to deal with it. Clinton was close, but even he couldn't deal with the rise of Fox News and Rush.

    What Is the Southern Strategy? (with picture)

    The Democrats' (White) Male Problem - US News
    Where as the Democrats have a white male problem, and haven't figured out any issues to help them. The Republicans went after the white working class guy by destroying unions (by promising that corporations would give them jobs and a little more money). But, the Democrats have nothing outside of the environment that white guys can get behind. Gay marriage...nope not gay; immigration...more people competing for food, housing, and jobs; gun control...we don't need the government doing that; women's pay...less money for other employees and more competition for jobs; race relations...not black or Hispanic, don't care, title 9, college admissions, and single welfare moms. The budget...at least Paul Ryan has one, who cares if California is doing better and Obama has reduced the deficit, there is no 'plan' for how the left could do even better except for giving more money out. The Democrats still have science and reason on their side, but third parties are reducing those numbers with the techno-libertarians and the eco-greens as people want to focus on their one major issue without all the major party baggage.

    The image of the strong, independent, well off white guy, living the perfect life if it weren't for the left wing policies is working for the right wing. The GOP can go after the racists, but haven't really because who else will those people vote for?
     
    ASU2003, Jan 2, 2015
    #1110
    • Like Like x 1
  11. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Get your game book here!
    Know your players!

    And not to be outdone by the Congress...
    Republicans in state governments plan juggernaut of conservative legislation

    Man, voters are going to see the result of their non-participation this past election and Dems, their lack of vision, organization and marketing.
    Is this going to be good...or like a Bull in a china-shop??

    My question is this...
    Are they going to actually do things to improve the nation?

    Or are they just going to take an anti-Obama stance and simply destroy anything Obama has stated he likes
    And take advantage of the moment to enact ideological only laws (anti-abortion, cut taxes, gut the safety-net, remove regulation, etc...the standard notions of the GOP)

    Methinks, it is in their nature to not wait, consider or ask for cooperation...they will do as they will.
    It will be the same after GWB got into full power.

    Charging forward, screaming..."MANDATE!!" :rolleyes:
    Well, at least they will actually get something done. (for better or worse...)

    On the federal level, Obama will be like a soccer goalie in a lop-sided match.
    I'm curious to see how fast his veto count grows from TWO.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2015
    rogue49, Jan 3, 2015
    #1111
  12. Street Pattern

    Street Pattern Very Tilted

    Location:
    The American Midwest
    No. The people who don't vote in off years are not engaged. They don't even know what they didn't do.

    When things get bad, instead of feeling remorse, they will feel even more alienated from politics -- and less likely to vote in the future.

    Moreover, with Ebola/ISIS terror in the air, there isn't much anybody could have done to change the outcome of the 2014 elections.

    Study after study shows that most people (lightly tethered to policy or ideology) will answer questions in a more politically conservative way when they feel fearful or threatened, even vaguely or remotely.
     
    Street Pattern, Jan 3, 2015
    #1112
    • Like Like x 1
  13. ROCNRICHY

    rocnrichy New Member

    I read on a bumper sticker "if the the 99% would vote you would not have to worry about the 1%." The repugs are elected time and time again by people voting against their own best economic interest. Brainwashed and duped by ads funded by the Koch brothers. People try to look past "God, guns and gays" to the real issues facing america, like the enviroment, and income enequality. It is good to read what the enlightened people write on this forum since I live in SW Florida, a republican stronghold where the Fox news is the final word on everything.
     
    rocnrichy, Jan 3, 2015
    #1113
    • Like Like x 1
  14. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    I'll have to agree with Mr. Schumer here...just as guilty as the others side.

    GOP Turns to the Courts to Aid Agenda

    My question isn't "Will they try?"
    ...they will, it's in their nature...just like the other side ...or any party or group.

    My question is how far they'll go?
    And what will they get away with...or succeed in?
    AND what will backfire on them?

    Politics is kinda random and ruthless.
    Fate has different plans than what they may have...or anyone else.

    The results & consequences are what I'm interested in.
    And how it affects me...my friends & family...and the nation.

    Good luck, you're going to need it. :eek:
    Don't fuck it up.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2015
    rogue49, Jan 4, 2015
    #1114
  15. Speed_Gibson

    Speed_Gibson Hacking the Gibson

    Location:
    Wolf 359
    The GOP as a group is a bunch of stupid f**ktards. I think the Democrats are just a big of group of idiots as well, and am more likely to grow a mohawk than vote for either group anytime soon.
     
    Speed_Gibson, Jan 4, 2015
    #1115
  16. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I think much of the problem is that the GOP and the Democrats are essentially two wings of the same party. The GOP can go completely bat-shit crazy, and the worst that will happen is that the Democrats will win an election. Big fucking deal. The degrees of difference between the two aren't that great on the political spectrum. The biggest difference is likely the absence (mostly) of neoconservatism among the Democrats, which, in my book, makes them the lesser of two evils. Even so, the Democrats maintain much of the problematic status quo of American politics both domestically and internationally. If you'll pardon my metaphor, it can be like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

    There is no real political risk in the U.S. like you see in other nations. Canada, for a long time, was much the same until more recently with the NDP, a social democratic party that has seen an unprecedented surge in support federally. You get a lot of disparity in Europe as well. You get a true left vs. right politics. Even a staid place like Canada has a centre-left vs. centre-left/centrist vs. centre-right. In the U.S., it's basically centre-left/centrist/centre-right vs. centre-right. It skews to the right compared to most political environments in wealthy democratic nations.

    So you get this environment where it's "our party versus that other party." The outcomes are relatively limited. I know those on either side of the spectrum defend the two-party system, and I'm not against it in principle, but the current dysfunction in American politics seems, to me, to be a kind of tug-of-war where neither side wants to give, and they're confident in their struggle because a third party isn't about to take hold of the wrong side of the rope to turn the tide in significant terms.
     
    Baraka_Guru, Jan 5, 2015
    #1116
  17. Street Pattern

    Street Pattern Very Tilted

    Location:
    The American Midwest
    The two-party system is inherent in the U.S. constitutional setup. It wasn't what the Framers planned, but they created a system where the emergence of two parties is inescapable.

    With control of the entire federal executive branch determined in a single high-stakes national election, every faction has an incentive to build a 51% coalition to take that prize. Smaller factions are fundamentally irrelevant.

    The same goes at the state level with the single elected governor.

    To have multiple parties, you need a parliamentary system, with the prime minister elected by the parliament. That is not going to happen in the U.S.

    It's easy to criticize the two parties as they exist. But they have each evolved and adapted over more than 150 years to represent the best approximation of what about half of the electorate wants.

    Bluntly, we have these parties because we have this country.

    That's the kind of thing which used to be said 50 years ago. In those days, the parties had considerable ideological overlap.

    And two closely similar parties were capable of working together within our elaborate system of "checks and balances", where neither party gets to control every policy chokepoint.

    But in recent years, the parties have become defined by ideology. They no longer have any ideological overlap: the most conservative Democrat in Congress is far to the left of the most liberal Republican.

    And that has made the checks-and-balances thing pretty much unworkable.

    For structural reasons, the U.S. usually has a president of one party, and Congress under control of the other party. That would be impossible under a parliamentary system.

    And now that the parties have diametrically opposite ideological and policy goals, it means that stalemate is pretty much baked in to the system.

    The Right has leveraged its advantages (think tanks, media, talk radio, etc.) to move debate over issues in a much more conservative direction than before.

    Moreover, one region of the country is a deep well of right-wing views. Leave out the South, and the U.S. would probably be as liberal as Canada.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
    Street Pattern, Jan 5, 2015
    #1117
    • Like Like x 1
  18. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Here's the problem for the GOP...
    New Senate majority leader’s main goal for GOP: Don’t be scary

    If your goal is "Don't be scary"...then the problem is that you're doing things and saying things that are scary in the first place.
    About as bad as the President's administration saying, "Don't do stupid stuff"
    Why??
    Shouldn't you NOT be stupid in the first place??

    And for the GOP...why have to try NOT be scary??
    What is your policy or actions that are SCARY?
    duh.

    It may be an indicator that you're doing something wrong...you're thinking wrong...if your goal is to be viewed as not scary.

    That's like vampires saying let's put a smiley face on despite the fact we drink your blood.

    ------

    But @StreetPattern is correct.
    And what people don't know and the media doesn't emphasize (since it WANTS a conflict)...is the US is a shade of purple (not just Blue & Red)
    And darn it...if you actually separated it out more...it would be a mottled shade of gray (or a mud of colors)
    The structure promotes the result.

    As does the release of money and funds into the campaigns, affects the vote.

    The powers that be...will do WHATEVER they can...and get away with...without looking bad...to stay the powers that be.

    The ideal isn't the ideal...whatever your ideal is.
    It's what gets more people to support you. (vote for you, angry at the other guy)
    Why do you think politicians speak in ambiguities?? They have a skill to keep the "majority" of people "leaning" to them.
    There really is no ideal.

    How about instead of "Don't be scary"...or "Don't do stupid stuff"
    The politicians say...."Do the Right Thing"
    For the people...for the nation.

    Not your base, not your supporters, not your party, not your lobbyists, not your corporations, not for your ego, not for your pockets...
    For the people...for the nation.

    Do the right thing.

    And that's not scary or stupid.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
    rogue49, Jan 5, 2015
    #1118
  19. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Agreed, agreed, agreed.

    Cantor, yes Cantor, nailed it.
    Very balanced, right down the center, substantive, straight shooting, intelligent...
    Damn if he had been like this when he was a politician, he would have been a real contender. (yes I know, he had to cater to his base and fellow GOP...but, What If...)

    Cantor to GOP: Don't ‘relitigate’ Obama presidency

    Watch the vid in the article.
    and damn straight on the opinion and topic.

    Get something done! :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
    rogue49, Jan 6, 2015
    #1119
  20. Speed_Gibson

    Speed_Gibson Hacking the Gibson

    Location:
    Wolf 359
    There are states like Oregon that have a decent Conservative/GOP type base but are guaranteed to count for the Democratic Candidate with a large portion of the voting population in Portland which is definitely not on that side of the fence.
     
    Speed_Gibson, Jan 6, 2015
    #1120
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