1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. We've had very few donations over the year. I'm going to be short soon as some personal things are keeping me from putting up the money. If you have something small to contribute it's greatly appreciated. Please put your screen name as well so that I can give you credit. Click here: Donations
    Dismiss Notice

Politics The Elephant in the room...The GOP today

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    I can only assume these other nations and cultures you are referring to rogue are not part of the Western world. Certainly citizens of the UK for instance, are not encumbered by a lack of free thinking or confusion over their inalienable right to free expression. In fact, it's been my experience that the atmosphere here in the UK is more conducive to speaking one's mind and offering a dissenting opinion than in the US. Especially in the work place where British employees would scratch their heads over the idea that their right to speak and express themselves freely ends when they get to the shop or office.

    I think you've made a lot of generalizations both about Americans and those of other nations and cultures in an effort to back into that safe and familiar place of fantasy where America enjoys a level of freedom all others do not.

    America's belief in its own exceptionalism is not a myth. The myth lies with the certainty held by so many Americans that its ideals never fail to manifest themselves and its motivations and behaviors are above reproach.

    Why? Because they truly believe that all the hype is somehow not all hype.
    They wholeheartedly believe that everyone in the world covets what America and Americans have.
    If they don't covet it, they are either enemies or ignorami.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  2. Alistair Eurotrash

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    That's an interesting perspective, Rogue. However, it doesn't match with my experience (which, I will accept, is limited).

    When I have worked with US organisations, I have found them to be considerably more hierarchical than their counterparts elsewhere and there appears to be a much stronger imperative to toe the line, conform and not speak out.

    As an outsider, I was surprised at first by the pressure to conform in society too. It appears to me that being "different" isn't something most Americans find desirable. It's kind of better to have homogeneity. As a result, it doesn't feel particularly "free" to me when I am there. Of course, there are exceptions and the culture does vary in different parts of the USA but I often find Americans inflexible rather than flexible. Of course, this may be because I am from the UK. According to Hofstede, we score lower on Power Distance and Uncertainty Avoidance in terms of our national culture (and about the same on Individualism).

    However, I see "exceptionalism" as something else. It is not about being "exceptional" as individuals. It is more about a political ideology that sees the USA as having a special mission to bring the American Way to other nations, akin to religious evangelism.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  3. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    rogue49

    You still seem to dig into the myth. You make it sound like America is unique in that regard. It's not. There are many other nations with just as much freedom, if not more, than in America. This allows for a heck of a lot of free thinkers. (Just one aspect to consider is that the U.S. still has a relatively low proportion of irreligious people compared to dozens of other nations.)

    There is evidence of free thinking if you look for it. Just consider press freedom. The unfortunate reality in the U.S. is that the press is dominated by major corporate conglomerates that tend to have a problem with balance. Americans often have to look at news outside of its borders to get an appropriate balance and level of coverage. Furthermore, let's not forget the recent problems the press had regarding crackdowns/arrests on journalists during the Occupy movement last year.

    Ultimately, what many Americans overlook is that their uniqueness isn't as significant as it has been in the past. I'm not sure if it's as bad as having the snowflake syndrome, but it can be a problem.

    As far as freedom is concerned, is America among the top 10 or 20 nations? Most certainly. But the point is: They aren't necessarily number one. The point is that there are many nations very similar to the U.S. in this regard.

    To me, America clinging to the idea of American exceptionalism is a reflection on America clinging to its military industrial complex, and on both fronts, I think there is a considerable amount of anxiety that no one wants to talk about.
     
  4. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Turning up the heat on past glory days is not uncommon for a nation anxious about its waning influence. The danger in doing so is in sparking a level of nationalism that overshoots the mark. American exceptionalism is no new idea but those who toted it out for political reasons in this last election blew a whole lot of hot air into it. It's off and running on it's own steam now, loud in its denial of reality and possibly intent on showing 'em who's boss.

    America needs to begin viewing itself as one of many free and democratic nations with the resources and will to compete and cooperate with other countries. Period.
     
  5. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, I really have no true bias...if other nations are otherwise, then great.
    But I'm only relating to my own direct experience...and the patterns that I've noted, as well as the difficulties or quirks they've created.

    I'd not just non-western nations, but from all over...Brazil, China, Japan, India, Mexico, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, etc...even British.
    Frankly, I always found it curious...each had their own little traits.

    Please don't take offense, I'm just noting what I've seen...and what some others (from other countries) have noted.
    And it is true...as the world changes, America is not as different as it was in the past.
    And it's own arrogance can be attributed to many inappropriate actions and opinions.

    I also agree that it's press is not as "free" as the myth applies, corporations have way too much influence in too many things.
    Then it makes me wonder why I've observed these "boxed-in" mindsets from other people from other cultures.
    Because I don't believe in myths...only realities.

    Is it that I truly experienced them...but it was in not as big a volume needed to get a true pattern.
    Or did I color it as a "reason" for their lack of audacity and breadth.
    Interesting question.

    Oh well, I'll figure it out as I get even more experience and exposure as time moves on.
    Back to the original topic...those "darn" GOP'rs.
     
  6. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    From the king and queen of gun totin' conservative mania:

    Ted Nugent;
    The entertainment value of wingnut rhetoric never ceases to amaze....if only there werent so many true believers in the ignorance of both of the above.
     
  7. roachboy

    roachboy Very Tilted

    meanwhile, out there in the world, even the imf is beginning to see neo-liberalism as lunacy. here's a new position paper, linked via krugman's nyt edito this morning, that argues for controls on trans-national capital flows. because, you know, unregulated capitalist activity is bad for stuff like social stability and coherent policy. which should never have been a surprise, actually. but i digress:

    http://www.imf.org/external/np/pp/eng/2012/111412.pdf
     
  8. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    And here I thought he'd merely advocate for bringing back the poll tax.

    What Sarah thinks is about as relevant as what Ted thinks. The Right are beginning to set off my compassion trigger. Yeah, I'm starting to feel sorry for them. If I had the money I'd be putting up billboards.
    "Do you have a problem with Obama?"
    "Is your problem with Obama interfering with your employment and family life?"
    "Do you neglect your responsibilities so you can indulge in your problem with Obama?"
    "Do you spend more than 5 hours a day on anti-Obama websites?"
    "Do you drink alcohol to enhance the Obama hating experience?"
    "Did you forget to take your meds today? Again?
    If you answered yes to any of these questions, you might be Obamaphobic. We can help. Call 800-get-real for more information on how we can help you control your obsession through our proven 12 step program of recovery. (Minimum wage operators who voted for Obama are standing by. )


    Edit: Ace Ventura! You are our 1 millionth caller. Please stand by for details on how you can receive free information on deprogramming solutions for victims like you who have been buffaloed into believing that lower taxes for the wealthy spur economic growth.

    (Higher rates for low income applicants may apply)
    The entertainment value of wingnut rhetoric never ceases to amaze....if only there werent so many true believers in the ignorance of both of the above.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
  9. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Coming back to life to steal again after having been put to death at the stakes in the post-2008 Republican witch hunt.

    More true believers
     
  10. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    How are we still operating as a 1st world country?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
  11. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    God and guns?
     
  12. roachboy

    roachboy Very Tilted

    another republican triumph:

    US Senate rejects UN treaty on disability rights amid GOP opposition | World news | guardian.co.uk

    the tea party folk objected that a un treaty "infringes on us sovereignty"
    bob dole was there in a wheelchair to support the treaty. they say he wanted these people to have to look at him as they voted.
    john kerry summarized the treaty as saying "you can't discriminate against the disabled."
    it's been signed by 155 countries and ratified by 128.
    but not the united states.
    thanks, republicans.
     
  13. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Rick Santorum claims it is the UN wanting to allow his daughter and other children with disabilities to die.
    --- merged: Dec 4, 2012 at 7:29 PM ---
    UN treaties cannot override the Constitution, but wingnuts certainly can, if given the opportunity.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2012
  14. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    I'm appalled but not surprised. The Republicans would repeal the US Disabilities Act if they thought they could get away with it.
     
  15. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    It's a big selling point: First World country, Third World features!

    Obamacare kinda ruined it a bit though.
     
  16. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    USA! USA! USA!
     
  17. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    No applause necessary...just send money!
     
  18. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Here's THE solution for the GOP...or some solutions.
    Good luck with that.
    Requires planning not spinning.

    All I know is this...they have figured out a Bipartisan stimulus plan for the nation...
    It's called Super-PACs and attack ads.
    Trickle down...:rolleyes:
     
  19. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
  20. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto