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The Complaining and Bitching Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by ASU2003, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. DamnitAll

    DamnitAll Wait... what?

    Location:
    Central MD
    My new-ish neighbor, who doesn't yet live in his house, has been working next door with his contractor and another dude for most of the evening. They were hammering, sawing, and playing music loudly enough that I could hear every song and practically every word, as well as shouting to one another off and on over the course of the past few hours. I fought every awkwardly non confrontational bone in my body to knock on their door not once but twice and ask them to keep it down—both times I didn't have the chance because they didn't hear me.

    I could tell they were getting ready to leave, having been able to hear every word of their conversation, and stuck around downstairs until the neighbor came out to his car to tell him how audible they had been from here on the other side of the wall. As reluctant as I was to go through with it, I'm going to give myself a little pat on the back for having done so and hope that I haven't immediately typecast myself as the geriatric wet blanket that wants to ruin their good time.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. hamsterball

    hamsterball Seeking New Outlets


    You just never have a taser handy when you need one.
     
  3. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Okay, I know I've been bitching about this for a while now. I'm just trying to get it out of my system before I jettison it from my working life....

    A half-decent recurring job (about eight hours a week) editing financial news was just awarded to an "experienced, first-class writer; meticulous editor." The problem? His profile contains grammatical errors (a subject/verb agreement error, a comma splice, confusing syntax) despite it stating he "shows no mercy to grammatical errors, poor syntax, and awful spelling." It also contains clichés such as calling himself a "wordsmith" like it's his title. (Several profiles have this.) He also uses "turn of phrase" twice. (This appears on countless profiles as well.) He even calls himself a "dab hand" at stuff. (Seriously?)

    Now someone is paying him somewhere around $20 an hour to apply something akin to his profile, which is, of course, his "best foot forward."

    I need to be done with this site. It's populated with idiots on both sides. It's sad, though, because the technology/concept is brilliant.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  4. DamnitAll

    DamnitAll Wait... what?

    Location:
    Central MD
    @Baraka_Guru, I share in your outrage.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Oh, yes. I'm sure there are a lot of "designers" on Elance. :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Fremen

    Fremen Allright, who stole my mustache?

    Location:
    E. Texas
    One of my local news stations that I follow on FB, posted an article about a European zoo that killed a giraffe because of worries over inbreeding.
    In the article synopsis on FB they used "should of" instead of "should have".
    After answering their question on whether they should have tried finding other alternatives in dealing with the giraffe, I pointed out the error in grammar. A little less diplomatically than I should have, I suppose.
    A few hours later I reread the commentaries and noticed the correction to the article and that my post had been deleted.

    I would like to complain, but I find it more funny, than anything. So I'm here to brag.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I suspect that this error arises from the commonly spoken contraction of "should have": should've.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  8. hamsterball

    hamsterball Seeking New Outlets

    I've notice that writing quality has seriously slipped in electronic communications. It frequently looks like no one has actually read the thing before posting it. I've seen it it online newspapers.
     
  9. Fangirl

    Fangirl Very Tilted

    Location:
    Arizona
    Just need to read the effusive praise lavished upon (often multiple) editors by (not-self) published writers to see examples of writers that know they'd be sunk without good editors.

    You should rant more often.

    For the record, I'm constantly reminded of what an average writer I am when I read pieces by 'real' writers.
    And I'm a terrible editor, hampered by my utter failure in grade school to grasp all but the most basic grammar skills.
    I'm an Internet hack writer. The best of my writing comes out when I'm very enthused about something. Then it writes itself. I wish it would edit itself, too.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. hamsterball

    hamsterball Seeking New Outlets


    And, yes, I realized the irony in my post, that I left a typo in it. Duuuuhhhhh :oops:
     
  11. Fangirl

    Fangirl Very Tilted

    Location:
    Arizona
    OMG! I lose my cool when I read the pedestrian craptasticness that passes for an article in an online newspaper!
    When I can honestly say, I could write a better piece than this, you know it is bad. And it is often bad in the first couple of sentences. Factual errors, misspelling of people's names. It's painful to read. No proofreading done. At all. Good grief.
    Now I'm getting rant-y.:oops:
    --- merged: Feb 12, 2014 at 7:18 PM ---
    See, hamsterball, it is different in a forum space. This is not the place to spend a lot of time editing what you've written. I try not to be judge-y. I admit I have a bit of a reaction to to, two, and too but balls, I'm sure I've driven people straight up a wall with my inability to finally and forever commit to memory it's versus its (I learned them wrong all those years ago in my wonderful Connecticut school of higher learning).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2014
    • Like Like x 1
  12. hamsterball

    hamsterball Seeking New Outlets

    A) I didn't consider that a rant

    B) Fangirl is right, you should do it more often

    I think you provided an excellent discussion point or three, and I quite agree with you. My job requires a combination of technical and persuasive writing, and I've frequently been called upon to edit documents prior to sending them to regulatory agencies. Many times, the documents are grammatically correct, but fail to construct a persuasive argument, or fall short of creating a chain of logic, leading to a justifiable conclusion. And I'm far from a professional editor.

    Please feel free to expand anytime you wish. :)



    And, Fangirl, I feel certain that you're being far too critical of yourself. I suspect that you're a MUCH better writer than you think. :)
    --- merged: Feb 12, 2014 at 7:24 PM ---

    Fangirl, you are as kind as you are intelligent and charming. I'm grateful for your words.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2014
    • Like Like x 1
  13. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    My left ovary hates me today. Somehow I only get the pain this bad when it's the left one.
     
  14. hamsterball

    hamsterball Seeking New Outlets


    So sorry to hear that you're in pain, @snowy. Hope it settles down soon.
     
  15. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    See, this is the thing....

    (I really don't want to go off on another rant here...)

    It's not just electronic communications. It's not difficult (at least not to a trained eye) to spot obvious typos in Canada's newspaper of record, which, for the lack of a better comparison, is kind of like a Canadian New York Times. The main reason for that is because not nearly as much money is pouring into the newspaper industry as in the past. The digital age has been devastating to newspapers. The music industry was hit hard first, but it's recovered and innovated a lot. Newspapers are still in the middle of having their business model obliterated, with nothing quite concrete or tried and true to replace it yet.

    Online versions of print news media have taken up some of the slack through attempts at monetization (ads, syndication, pay walls, etc.), but there is still a rather devastating shortfall in the wider industry. One of the biggest casualties of that is that there is much less money for payrolls, and so many journalists and editors have been let go, and yet another round of it has happened recently: National Post, Globe and Mail announce layoffs | Toronto Star

    It's not that online or print media are staffed with a bunch of idiots who don't know what they're doing. They're staffed with a bunch of overworked, frantic, but talented people who simply can't put the time they'd prefer into each piece they publish. I know exactly how they feel because I work for a small book publisher. Book publishers haven't been hit as hard as newspapers, but they've been struggling. Ebook sales haven't made up for the decreases in print sales.

    Even before technological upheaval, small book publishers struggled with limited resources. As a result, you get overworked, frantic, but talented people working there who can't put the time they'd prefer into each book they publish. I'm used to three- or four-month publication cycles (from manuscript to printer). A place like Penguin? They operate on 12- or 18-month cycles. They often also have multiple people working on each title. Small presses? Single editors work on multiple books. This is the difference between the bestseller model and the niche publishing model.

    Anyway... (Has this become a rant?) The problems we see with poor writing, whether online or in print, is indirectly a result of readers not being as willing to pay for good writing as they were in the past. If a publisher can't afford a certain number of editors of a certain quality, they have to make do with alternative strategies. If a publisher can't afford a certain number of writers of a certain calibre, they have to make do with alternative strategies. Sometimes these strategies are matters of survival. Sometimes these strategies can't allow for production at the level of quality you envision. Unfortunately, it often comes down to the money.

    Listeners of music became less willing to pay for music as they were in the past, but the music industry found solutions that worked. Those who publish the written word are still figuring shit out.
    --- merged: Feb 12, 2014 at 11:02 PM ---
    I've seen it; I've been the target of it. There are writers who become quite humbled when they see their "baby" run the the wringer by an editor with a sharp eye and a relentless pen. A decent editor will know how to bring the best out of someone's writing, and that sometimes requires a bit of tough love.

    You know what? I probably should. It feels good—cathartic.

    I wouldn't call you a hack. What's valuable about your process is that you're aware of what you can achieve with your writing. The best writing is a combination of passion and craft. Whether the output needs the love of an editor to varying degrees is another story.

    It often comes down to a writer simply having awesome shit to say, even though they're never going to win a Pulitzer.

    You write about awesome shit. (I just wish I watched more of the shows you write about. :p)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
  16. hamsterball

    hamsterball Seeking New Outlets

    Thanks for that insight. It gave me a new perspective on the situation. And no, it wasn't a rant at all.
     
  17. Fangirl

    Fangirl Very Tilted

    Location:
    Arizona

    Ah geez. Thank you, Baraka_Guru. That means a great deal coming from you.

    I have followed rather closely the decline and near fall of the music industry.
    The decline and fall(ing) of the print industry, be it newspaper, magazine or book continues and I find it heartbreaking. I believe we are all losing out.
    I wish it were simple to convert the losses from paper to tech as it was ultimately from vinyl to cassette to CD to mp3. Digital download.
    We have this notion that the Internet should be free but content creators need to be paid what they are worth. And no one has fully figured out a long term, guaranteed way to keep an income stream on the 'net except the very biggest of sites. And even they struggle, parring back staff--and quality, as you mentioned.
    I completely understand the deadline rush. If news, even entertainment news is not timely, there's no point in publishing it. And because of the tech age people expect to get their news fresh, practically as it happens--but that leaves no time for fact-checking, proofing, editing.
    I love technology as much as the next modern person yet I'm the one who cancelled our newspaper (the Chicago Tribune) as the news on my doorstep became day-old news, the size of the newspaper dwindled and my favourite writers slipped away to other venues.

    I love books and because I spend 10, 12, 14-hours a day looking at a screen, I'd really rather read a book made of paper. But I'm not against Kindles and such and when the last magazine that we subscribe to folds, I'll buy one to keep on the coffee table.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2014
    • Like Like x 1
  18. hamsterball

    hamsterball Seeking New Outlets

    Had to cancel dinner reservations tonight at a wonderful restaurant because of the snowstorm....Grrrrr
     
  19. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Besides some of the various feature/op-ed articles online, and even some videos, I find that the most valuable stuff is still found in books, mainly because they are written at a depth that's astounding compared to what you can feasibly do online. I think this was always the case, but it's much more apparent in contrast to the 24/7 instanews cycle. I don't really follow the news that closely.

    “And I am sure that I never read any memorable news in a newspaper. If we read of one man robbed, or murdered, or killed by accident, or one house burned, or one vessel wrecked, or one steamboat blown up, or one cow run over on the Western Railroad, or one mad dog killed, or one lot of grasshoppers in the winter, — we need never read of another. One is enough. If you are acquainted with the principle, what do you care for a myriad instances and applications?”​
    — Henry David Thoreau, Walden
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Fangirl

    Fangirl Very Tilted

    Location:
    Arizona
    Ugh. Bad sleep. Eyes are itchy and burning. Spouse is running a huge table saw, cutting wood pieces for the main hallway floor. The wood dust is everywhere, including my eyes. I will be very, very happy when he is done. Gradually getting rid of the wall-to-wall carpet is the long-term plan. Time off is hard to come by as is the big bucks it takes to wood-floor a two-story home. It's coming along...arg, there goes the saw again. I hear the ringing in my sleep.