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The atheist mom hero

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by warrrreagl, May 25, 2013.

  1. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    What we are experiencing is the (re)emergence of the religious right (along with the Tea Party) as the dominant voice in the Republican Party and a desire to return to those glorious days of yesteryear of which you speak.

    More attempts to restrict a woman’s right to choose in the last 2-3 years than all years combined since Roe v Wade.

    Formal policy position of the Republican Party supporting Constitutional amendments to further restrict women’s rights and define marriage as between a man and a woman.

    Attempts to restrict the religious freedoms of Muslims.

    Attempts to introduce religious beliefs into public school science curricula.

    Republican members of Congress citing the Bible to prove that the sciences of embryology, evolution, and the Big Bang are "lies straight from the Pit of Hell” and that climate change is not man made because only God can influence climate.

    Republican candidate for governor of Virginia petitioning the federal courts to reinstate the state’s 100-year old sodomy laws.

    I could provide many more examples of recent attempts by the right to impose religious beliefs in law.

    Proselytizers, be they atheist, Seventh Day Adventists, fundamental Christians or any persuasion, may be annoying but their speech is a protected right. But don’t kid yourself, the religious right’s determined and unrelenting efforts to legislate their beliefs on the country presents a clear and present danger.
     
  2. warrrreagl

    warrrreagl Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Land of cotton.
    Damn. I fucked up.
     
  3. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Did you blaspheme in front of an administrator?
     
  4. fflowley

    fflowley Don't just do something, stand there!

    I know from prior posting that you are very considered and accurate with what you say but this I find surprising.
    Are there actual statistics on this?
     
  5. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    It depends on where you look. I can't remember where I originally read that, but here is something I managed to pull up with some specific numbers.

    Among scientists,
    • 33% believe in God (compared to 83% of the general public)
    • 18% don't believe in God but do believe in a universal spirit or higher power (12% general public)
    • 41% don't believe in either (4% general public)
    • 7% don't know/refused (1% general public)
    Scientists and Belief - Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

    While this doesn't all account for "hardline" atheism, that is a lot of people who don't consider a creator god in the Christian tradition. "Universal spirit" is kind of an umbrella term for beliefs and practices that include secular humanism, Buddhism, universalism, etc., all of which include atheist positions.

    But I don't want to get caught up on the numbers. The main thrust of my point is that the scientific community is essentially secular. Whether it's that "most" or simply "many" scientists are atheist, or whether there is a jumbled mixture of atheism vs. agnosticism vs. whatever, the idea is that the scientific community does not include Christian dogma or the dogma of any other major religion as a part of the way it carries out its goals.

    If only the same were done amongst legislators, but I suppose it's difficult when 8 out of every 10 Americans believe in God (compared to 1 out of every 3 scientists).
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2013
  6. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    Extreme Liberals don't see it as them shoving anything down someone's throat. They claim live and let live, but in essence, too they want you to change in some fashion.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. TheSurgeOn

    TheSurgeOn Getting Tilted

    Location:
    England
    Shuddering statistics - not of the scientists, but the general public and the gulf between them.

    I wonder if there are any figures showing scientists raised as believers occupying any particular group?

    Reading the link, scientists blame lack of resources as to why more of the public weren't more aware.

    Where would we be now if science had had the churches' resources? The thought sickens me.
     
  8. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    How so?

    What liberal policy or legislative proposal is comparable to Constitutional amendments to restrict women's reproductive rights or gay civil rights?

    What liberal policy or legislative proposal is comparable to requiring the teaching of the interpretation of Biblical scripture as science in public schools?
     
  9. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    "Live and let live" is more akin to libertarianism.

    And I can't for the life of me think of any extreme liberals in the U.S. federal government, or any at the state level.

    Someone help a Canadian out?

    I can think of some in the media and what not, just not anyone who holds elected office.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2013
  10. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Bernie Sanders, our token socialist, who wants to take away the First Amendment rights of corporations to influence the political process through unlimited and undisclosed campaign contributions...to name just one of his extreme proposals.
     
  11. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Oh, you mean American extreme. I have to remember just how anemic the left is in American politics.
     
  12. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I thought of one.

    The War on Christmas! :)
     
  13. CinnamonGirl

    CinnamonGirl The Cheat is GROUNDED!

    Unfortunately, every belief system has its assholes. The lady in the newscast was pretty cool, though.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    Remember that any policy implemented is a desire to change something be it liberal or conservative.
     
  15. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    The goal of good public policy should be to provide the greatest positive impact with the least negative impact and should be supported by evidence or data.

    Ace likes to say that policy is based on morality and I dont necessarily disagree with that. But a distinction should be made between morality and faith and many of the extremist policies on the right are based on blind faith – what the Bible says about conception or homosexuality or the origin of life.

    I dont see that on the left, but if you believe it to be so, an example would help.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    A distinction needs to be made. It doesn't have to be Biblical to be moral, though it is moral to have it based on evidence and data.
     
  17. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    "good public policy should be to provide the greatest positive impact with the least negative impact"

    both conservatives and liberals believe they are providing good public policy with the greatest positive impact and the least negative impact.

    GOOD is a subjective word, and depending if you are the liberal making the decision then maybe the conservative doesn't agree and vice versa.

    One cannot say that only liberals can provide "good public policy should be to provide the greatest positive impact with the least negative impact" no more than only conservatives can.
     
  18. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I dont disagree.

    But you're ignoring the issue of the growing influence of faith-based policy with no supporting evidence or data, which I maintain is reflected in social policies of the right and not the left.

    Blind faith in the word of the Bible (religious social conservatives) and ideological purity (Tea Party conservatives) have crowded out the more traditional conservatives to the point that supporting data doesnt matter and compromise and consensus building are dirty words.
    --- merged: May 29, 2013 at 12:47 PM ---
    If you are a more traditional conservative, you and I could probably find common ground to develop public policy for the greater good, with both of us giving a little.

    If you are among those of blind faith and/or ideological purity, probably not.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  19. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    agreed. I can find common ground with most of them. blind faith, ideological purity, no chance in hell. (see what I did there? :D )

    I encountered a liberal with ideological purity values the other day. It was a short discussion.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2013
  20. Spiritsoar

    Spiritsoar Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    New York
    I'd say that's a rather general statement. Lately, I've seen the uprising of atheist personalities and groups who do have an agenda of sorts. It's not the abolishment of religion they're seeking, (though I doubt any would argue with it) but an agenda of ending the harm that religions often cause by forcefully imposing their beliefs on others, and using their dogma to justify atrocities. I think witnessing those acts and injustices is what ultimately creates those chip-on-the-shoulder atheists that Baraka_Guru is talking about. I can't say that I blame them.