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Politics The 2016 US Presidential Election

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by ASU2003, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
  2. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    I blame the Democrats for not realizing that they were losing the blue collar workers in the 80s and 90s. The conservatives turned the non-union workers against the unions. Telling them that businesses would be able to hire more and pay better if unions didn't exist. That if you worked hard, you would do better. And that unions only helped the lazy and corrupt avoid getting fired.

    The Democrats and Republicans helped pass trade deals that benefited big corporations and tax dodgers, but didn't really affect small town America except for when the big employer moved their jobs to a different state or out of the country.

    Now it seems the Democrats are just a loose collation of activists for a bunch of different issues. And there is plenty of in-fighting on the left. If a professional version of Trump would have been the Republican candidate from the start, I'm not sure if he wouldn't win 350+ votes in the electoral college against Hillary. Well, that is if the right-wing media wouldn't brand him as being "not conservative enough". There are plenty of independent white working class people around here who aren't a big fan of immigration, gun control, LGBT rights, PC minority issues, or cutting the military. And the Democrats aren't doing a good enough job of explaining why their ideas and proposals on those issues would be better for the typical voter in the Midwest, Southeast and rural America.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Followup to my post in the GOP thread.
    Link - Dems in a frenzy to take advantage of Trump's lead...

    This is the Hillary's and the Dems to lose...they have to remember to play it smart...not presume or go overboard. Right now they're thinking they have it "in the bag".
    But if anything the GOP primary should show them...not to underestimate Trump...or the electorate's potential to be willful.

    They may certainly elect Trump, pulling a scenario which happened to Gore vs. GWB.
    It ended up, they just didn't LIKE Gore enough...and liked GWB more.

    Same may happen here...the public may find they do not LIKE Hillary enough...and like Trump more.
    No matter if he offends women, hispanics, blacks, etc...in the past, present or maybe the future.

    Hillary has to not assume...still aspire and inspire.
    And the Dems have to understand this may NOT translate into votes downstream.
    Both she and the party need to "get out the vote"

    And in turn, the GOP needs to also...because like Trump or not...there ARE more Dems...and the electorial pattern is NOT in their favor.

    The winner will be the one that is most realistic.
    And most inspiring...and least boring.
    Cause, no matter what...Americans HATE boring. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
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  4. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    The biggest risk to the Democrats is if too many Bernie Sanders supporters check out after his campaign ends. If Clinton cannot mobilize these voters to vote for her, she might be overwhelmed by Trump supporters and Republican anti-Clinton types. Many are both of these things, but there are enough out there who don't support Trump but are vehemently against Clinton.

    In other words, I don't believe Clinton will have an easy time of this. I think this is matter of figuring out which will have a bigger impact, the anti-Clinton crowd or the anti-Trump crowd. These are crowds that are found on both sides of the political divide.
     
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  5. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member

    Location:
    Nebraska
    That describes me.

    Except that I'm a Democrat "anti-Clinton type."

    I may sit this out and not vote. I will not vote for Hillary Clinton.

    I don't especially like Trump, either, but Hillary is the epitome of the experienced, qualified, establishment, entitled, pols (of both parties) that have run Washington for a generation. They are the ones who have given us Donald Trump.

    Fuck 'em.:D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    The next problem, is that even if The Sanders supporters do vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination, that the left tends to pack up and disregard all things politics for 3.5 years.

    And after Clinton, I think you will see most candidates resembling an Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders type of left wing Democrat either in 4 or 8 years.
     
  7. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Levite

    Levite Levitical Yet Funky

    Location:
    The Windy City
    I am still supporting Bernie, and highly approve of his decision to remain in the campaign until the last primary is over. That said, I am certainly enough of a realist to see that it is a virtual certainty at this point that Hillary will be the nominee.

    Yes, that angers me because I think it represents a victory of big money and party machinery over a grassroots-oriented campaign free of large corporate interests. And because it represents the passive gullibility of so much of the American public to accept both whatever the mainstream media has fed them, and also the slick spin of the Clinton machine.

    However, I am also enough of a realist to know that as distasteful as I find Hillary, her common, everyday political sleaziness pales to virtual insignificance next to the titanic greed, ignorance, hatemongering, lunacy, and utterly feckless fuckwaddery that is Donald Trump. I think Hillary would be bad for America; but no worse than most presidents, and perhaps even slightly better than some (hard to outdo Reagan, Bush Jr., Harding, Franklin Pierce, and guys like that for shagnastic douchebagism). But Trump would be an absolute and total cataclysm, for America and for the world as a whole.

    If and when the moment comes when Bernie suspends his campaign, or if and when Hillary is nominated at the convention, I will vote for her, and I will loudly encourage all sane people-- Bernie supporters, other Democrats, independents, moderate Republicans, whoever-- to vote for her as well.

    I have been voting in national elections my whole life based on the principle of damage control. This year will apparently be no different. And the damage control issue is real, and vital.

    But my willingness to vote for Hillary and to encourage all and sundry to vote for Hillary in order to defeat Trump does not mean I support her. It means that I am not crazy enough to let the legitimate criticisms of her become a vehicle for someone way more evil and infinitely more batshit insane to become president instead. I see no reason to protest America's stupidity at failing to support a real progressive reform candidate by instead electing the human equivalent of a barrel of shit mixed with nitroglycerin.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
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  9. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    I don't think Trump has that much support. He's had, what, 11 million people vote for him in primaries? That's nothing.
     
  10. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    This sums up whats ahead for Trump:

    "Donald Trump is someone who jumped out a 100-story window and is at floor 50, and thinks he knows how to fly."

    Trump's Daunting General Election To-Do List.

    And this is beyond having to explain his crazy ass policy proposals in far greater detail than he has to-date.
     
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  11. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    Trump being elected POTUS is possible. My feeling is there are a large number of voters who might decide "Why not vote for Trump?".

    I see him as a buffoon who presents a lot of ridiculous ideas. The thing is lot of people like what they hear from him, and don't care if much of what he proposes is totally unworkable.
     
  12. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    What must be particularly frustrating for liberals (and those further left) is that the choice between the two Democratic candidates is a choice between the centre-left and the centre-right. With a Clinton nomination, the general election becomes a choice between the centre-right and the "right-wing proper" (I'm willing to hear out your arguments that Trump is actually far right).

    So in essence, liberals who were hoping for an actual left (though arguably still centrist) candidate will now have to hold their noses and vote for someone who leans to the right. This, due mainly to the fear of having a right-wing president who may or may not benefit from a Republican-controlled Congress.... *shudder*

    As a Canadian, I cannot fathom being in this position, given the differences in the structure of the parliamentary system.
     
  13. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Ok, this portion of the board is going to get more active in the coming months...it's been relatively quiet for awhile.
    But here we go...hopefully we can be more consistent and civil than Trump.

    He's already starting his real contortionist routine...the past was just practice. :rolleyes:
    Trump turns to general election — and away from past positions

    The man will make the flip-flops and spinning we're used to from politicians look like amateur yoga. :confused:
     
  14. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    Trump's incredibly condescending & insulting effort to reach out to "Hispanics" almost shocked me. It would've been unbelievable coming from anybody............other than Trump.
     
  15. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Of course he is. He's a fucking populist demagogue.

    He'll tell people what they want to hear to maintain and grow his support, and now he has an easier target with Hillary Clinton. It's going to be a "character bloodbath."

    His track record is abysmal, even by politician standards: Donald Trump's file | PolitiFact
     
  16. Levite

    Levite Levitical Yet Funky

    Location:
    The Windy City
    It sucks.

    And yes, Trump is actually far right. Dude wants to screen people at the border for being Muslim. He wants to try and deport everyone here illegally, regardless of circumstances. He thinks the answer to Da'esh and other terrorists is "bomb the shit out of them." He's a racist, homophobic raging sexist, approved of by the Ku Klux Klan. If he were any father to the right, he'd have to lean left to give a handy to Attila the Hun.
     
  17. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Oh okay. I added that parenthetical statement because I wasn't sure whether all that stuff was just a series of fever dreams of mine.
     
  18. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC

    ‘This is not a reality show’ - Obama on a Trump Presidency
    Sad that we actually have to state this...
     
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  19. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    • Like Like x 1
  20. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    • Like Like x 2