1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. We've had very few donations over the year. I'm going to be short soon as some personal things are keeping me from putting up the money. If you have something small to contribute it's greatly appreciated. Please put your screen name as well so that I can give you credit. Click here: Donations
    Dismiss Notice

Politics The 2016 US Presidential Election

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by ASU2003, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I've read too many comments on Facebook to forget the fact that many conservative Christians in the U.S. consider embryos and underdeveloped fetuses to be "children." Just the other day, I read comments that considered the practice of abortion to be a form of genocide. (I know, I know: I need to stop reading comments on the Internet.)

    As with many other political topics, this one is difficult to debate because the two main sides aren't even on the same page. On one side, you have educated, scientifically literate people who view abortion as a valid health option for women who wish to maintain control over their bodies when it comes to the serious, taxing, and even risky venture of pregnancy. On the other side, you have people, whether educated or not, who choose to ignore or "refute" the science of human reproduction and abortion, many maintaining that "life begins a conception," which is a philosophical or metaphysical position rather than a scientific one. Science has determined that there are various biological processes that occur during conception and in each week of pregnancy, but many of these early processes aren't that dissimilar to the processes of other mammals. We're talking about processes on the cellular level. We're talking about embryonic matter, which is the level of concern regarding most abortions.

    Here are the facts. Only 3% of Planned Parenthood's health services are abortion services. Also, more than 60% of abortions in the U.S. are of embryos (i.e., they're not even developed fetuses yet). About 99% of abortions are done before 24 weeks, which is when the fetus first develops a capacity to feel pain. At least 89% are done before 12 weeks, less than halfway to the stage when a fetus can feel pain. Reasonable fetal viability outside the womb starts at around 24 weeks, but the chances of survival average around 50% at that time, which is a big gamble. Viability is extremely unlikely between 22 and 23 weeks, and is virtually impossible at 21 weeks and earlier.

    Those who oppose abortion ("pro-life" is a bit of a misnomer in many cases) tend to do so on the basis of faith or religious morality. Those who support abortion do so on the basis of personal rights and scientific understanding. Again, these two sides aren't even on the same page. Any crossover into the debate requires wading into territory with premises that one does not even accept. It's kind of pointless, and I think the abortion debate is a very stupid thing to have during a presidential election, as it takes time away from discussing more important matters.

    Not to derail talking about immigration or anything, but I think it's interesting how there is a lot of related issues and even irony on the topics that seem to be big concerns for conservatives in the U.S.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Levite

    Levite Levitical Yet Funky

    Location:
    The Windy City
    I have to say, the abortion thing is one of the most annoying examples of right-wing hypocrisy in social issues-- the major exception being the Catholic Church. I don't agree with them at all, but I will give credit where credit is due. They are against abortion, but they are also against the death penalty and in favor of aggressively compassionate social welfare programs. Their position is that life begins at conception, and is precious from that instant until God takes life away Himself. I don't agree with the "life begins at conception" part, but I can't fault them for having a position and sticking with it on all points.

    But they seem to be the only ones. Virtually all the rest of the Christian right wing seems to be eager as all fuck to prevent abortions, but they're not interested in giving mothers publicly funded medical care; or supporting Federally mandated paid maternity and paternity leave; or providing low-cost child care to working parents; or properly funding education and guaranteeing free college education; or providing social services and community services to keep kids safe, well-fed and cared for, engaged in school, learning skills, and healthily socializing instead of dropping out, staying poor, and/or getting lost in drugs, gangs, child trafficking, or homelessness; or creating a justice system that is not overloaded with nonviolent offenses and geared towards punishment as a tool for funding private prisons, but instead is oriented on punishment only for serious violent offenses, and rehabilitation in all other cases, and basic decency and safety even for prisoners.

    In other words, their position basically is, "Unborn fetuses are God's beautiful special creations, don't you dare harm them or you'll go straight to hell! But once those little bastards are born, fuck 'em all, let's stamp those poor crackers, n*****s, s***s, and whatnot right out, because they're all just thieves, rapists, and welfare leeches."

    Maybe I'm just a poor, ignorant Jew, but it doesn't seem very Christian to me....
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Street Pattern

    Street Pattern Very Tilted

    Many of the fiercest anti-abortion people I know aren't religious at all. I think the core of their position is that there should be consequences for premarital sex.
     
  4. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Many of the fiercest anti-abortion people, i.e. Republicans in Congress, want to eliminate all Title X family planning funding, even though such funding cannot be used for abortion, and replace it with failed abstinence only programs.

    Republican policy: Oppose abortion and oppose the most effective programs to prevent abortions.
     
  5. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    The Republicans in Congress will certainly be squirming in their seats next month (Sept 24) when Pope Francis addresses a joint session of Congress, the first pope to do so.

    There will be squirming issues for Congressional Democrats as well....abortion, gay marriage.

    Given the unprecedented nature of a papal address to Congress, the National Catholic Reporter raised the question of how members of Congress should respond.

    Papal address to Congress: symphony or opera?

    I am in the opera camp.

     
  6. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Perspective from the rude pundit. :D

     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Bloom County is back... :cool:
    Yes, a daily strip...released on his Facebook page - Link
    [​IMG]

    And one of the reasons is to trump Trump :D
    [​IMG]

    scroll down the page to catch up with all the releases since 8/3

    "And all is alright with the world."
    Now if we can only get "On The Farside" and "Calvin & Hobbes" to start again... :)
     
  8. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    More on the lighter side of the interminably long campaign.

     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX

    Rick Perry, thankfully, is definitely Running On Empty.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    How for ALL of them, at all times..."Crazy" by Gnarls Barkley :rolleyes:


    Y'gotta be, to want to go thru this...
    And like Seal said, if you wanna survive. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    THIS

    Dead on, fully agree.
    We put you in there, you BETTER work your ass off.
    And no hiding either.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom

    "But even the President of the United States sometimes must have to stand naked"
    ~ Bob Dylan (It's Alright, Ma)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. tecoyah

    tecoyah Illusionary

    My predictions for this debate tonight:

    Trump will be attacked on multiple fronts, Fiorina will get a few jabs in about her face, Bush will meow into the wind, Carson will be calm and mostly quiet, the lesser players will say the same stuff they have been and barely louder than the crickets. In a couple days the Donald will whine about fairness and "Gotcha Questions" before fading into a sad history in a couple months.
     
  14. ralphie250

    ralphie250 Fully Erect

    Location:
    At work..
    Spot on so far
     
  15. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    I'm glad they asked the pediatrician about vaccination. I wish they had also asked him about planned parenthood.
     
  16. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I'm amazed at what passes for election/presidential issues these days.

    Okay, not amazed. Depressed.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  17. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    what

    a

    clown show
     
  18. ralphie250

    ralphie250 Fully Erect

    Location:
    At work..
    honestly sometimes when trump talks he says what some people are thinking but are afraid to say
     
  19. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    On one of the "talking heads" news programs a political analyst commented that Trump has an advantage over the actual politicians in that he can say whatever he wants because he doesn't have to worry about reelection, answering to constituents and financial supporters, etc. That makes sense to me. The bad part is he can play to peoples unfounded fears, as well as their legitimate concerns. People want to hear a strong message, they don't want to know the details such as "How do you plan to get that program through Congress? How do you plan to pay for it?."

    Are we going have another "Reagan Revolution?"--Just do something/anything right now! And don't worry about paying for it until much later.
     
  20. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Congress would never work with him, ever. He'd just try to executive order EVERYTHING