Spanking (as discipline, not BDSM)

That sums it up for me in regards to everything youve said. You dont have that much invested in this issue? Then why are we talking?

Timeouts work. Positive reinforcement works. Spanking works. Its all based on the child.

Spanking, like everything else, isnt a problem if you communicate clearly why the spanking is taking place. The "removal of privileges" doesnt work for everyone. It didnt work for me. Spanking worked. Beatings from my dad (which he interpreted as spankings) didnt work. Is this not clear enough?

Something will work for any given child; you just have to find out what. It may only be TO's. It may be spanking.

 

Ours is a no-spanking household. Neither Mrs. Levite nor I were ever spanked as children, and we consider those to be some of the best choices our parents ever made. It was always made clear to us by our respective parents when our behavior was unacceptable, and there were always consequences. But physical violence was never something that we were forced to endure from people we loved, and who professed to love us in return.

One thing Mrs. L and I agreed on very early was the idea that violence instills fear, not respect. And while we do want our child to respect us, we are not at all interested in having him fear us.

 

I have two children, now 18 and 16, both boys, both little sods growing up. Their dad did not really involve himself in our lives from day one so discipline was down to me.
I tried time outs, sitting them on naughty chairs, it never worked especially with the eldest who would laugh and run off. He got a smacked bum.

There is a difference to smacking your child and beating the shit out of him. My grandfather regularly used a belt on his 6 kids. He ran a tight ship and the kids feared him and stayed in line, all six are great adults and are honest hardworking and have their own great kids. (I am one) I don't agree with his methods but it worked.

I have friends who have never smacked their kids, read parenting books, use time outs and their children are a pain in the ass. I dread them visiting as they are so out of control. Also they don't seem to let their kids ever just get dirty, mine used to make mud pies, usually ate mud, Kyle ate a woodlice once and seemed to enjoy it, They seemed to be constantly in a state of undress as they played out the back. I taught them to climb trees, they broke bones and had stitches, and learnt to climb better. They fell off their bikes, again more trips to casualty, they learnt to ride better.

My children are my best friends and they cannot remember me ever smacking them, I did but it was not some great drama, they were naughty, I disciplined them.

I always preferred talking to them about their behaviour and why I thought it was wrong. This was usually enough once they passed the 6-8 yr old stage.

NO CHILD UNDER TWO SHOULD BE SMACKED, at this age they are only just understanding cause and effect, and if they are smacked it is because of the parents frustrations not about discipline.

Also if I said I would do something I always followed through, I never backed down and the kids knew that I was serious, once you let them see weakness they will exploit it and then they have you by the balls.
I found parenting like a military campaign, I strategically planned for every event and I found that my kids played up when they were bored, I tried to engage them as much as was possible in activities so they weren't bored.

It paid off as they are really nice kids.

 

My last was specifically in regards to what you're teaching your child about dealing with other people, since that seems to be the main thrust of your posts.

Is it okay for a kid to deprive another person of something? Depends on the circumstances.
Is it okay for a kid to remove someone from their life? Depends on the circumstances.
Is it okay for a kid to physically strike another person? Depends on the circumstances.

Is spanking on the same level as other options? In terms of magnitude, I don't think so either. Nor do I think of time outs on the same level as all other options. I think of punishment as a sliding scale there is also overlap and variation between each sort of punishment that you might use. I don't see it as simple as spanking is always more severe than some other punishment, again it depends on the context. Most of the time I would say spanking falls somewhere in the middle. Take my example from before, losing my books (privilege removal). That was perhaps the most severe punishment my parents could have inflicted on me without going to jail. There are things that would have put them in jail that I would have preferred they do instead (and not for the crude expedient of having my parents jailed to escape punishment). I don't see any reason not to call it 'emotional violence'. It was an action explicitly designed to cause psychological harm, as all these 'lesser' punishments do. It may well be temporary and not calling it violence might make you feel better about it, but that doesn't change what it is.

 

For sure. But you also have to be able to have something for leverage. There has to be punishment, otherwise how can you train your child to be decent human being?

 

Absolutely. And I hope you understand I'm not looking for a way to be a lazy parent. It's just another tool in the toolbox for some kids, in some situations. I'd even be willing to say that most kids probably wouldn't ever need to be spanked (though this of course is amenable to evidence to the contrary), my own included.

I wouldn't worry about being an armchair parent, nobody else seems to. In my role as parent I see the same thing you do. I occasionally work with birthday parties at a local children's entertainment place and at least half the time it's more like a clinic in exactly the kind of parent I don't want to be.

I just think that spanking bans, or taking children away from their parents for spanking in any circumstances isn't necessarily called for on the merits of the case.

 

My mom read the first edition of Dr. Spock's book, made some adjustments and raised three boys without ever using corporal punishment.
She also got into screaming matches with the school when they tried to pull it on us.

However boys being boys we often needed discipline and I do mean often.
Mom used work and since we lived on a truck farm with no running water or electricity there was always work.
You split wood for a couple of hours, you never want to push your brother off the porch again.
Hauling six gallon jerry cans of water makes you think twice about getting lippy with your mom about what's for dinner.

I read the later edition of the same book and tried to apply some of the same lessons.
The only time I used physical punishment was when my kids did something so dangerous they could have been killed.
Then it was only a swat or two in order to make a point.

Have to say I'm pretty happy with the result.

 

I believe that I spanked both of my daughters twice in their childhood. The fact that I actually did it made my threat to do it again credible. The only one I remember was them brawling in the back seat and knocking the driver(me) in the back of the head. I tossed them over the hood, gave em 2 swats each. This was in the middle of Nebraska with my mom in the car following us. I only had to tap on the brakes after that and they'd settle right down.

I'm not a big fan of spanking, but I'm pragmatic enough to go with what works.

 

It's effective for some children that are not responsive to other things. For example, two swats on the backside of the child I worked with who was on the spectrum would stop a 2 hour tantrum. However, spankings are over too quickly, so they are often ineffective as discipline. A quick swat when a child is doing something dangerous pairs a negative consequence with something that would be potentially harmful. Or example, swatting a hand, strongly, away from a hot iron or a butt-swat for running into the street. This is still negative, but less so than being hit by a car or burned, so it's still often a deterrent. But for the most part, spanking is not am overall effective method of punishment or discipline.

 

I'll defer to the people who have actually researched this one.

Policy Statement on Corporal Punishment