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Politics Romney - Is he ready?

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, May 15, 2012.

  1. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Just look at how tired Romney's economic plan is.

    Romney Will Solve the Crisis with the Exact Same GOP Plan of 2008, 2006, 2004... | Next New Deal

    Also, this is rather interesting:

    [​IMG]

    CHART: Bush Vs. Obama On Private And Public Sector Job Creation | ThinkProgress
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
    • Like Like x 1
  2. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Yes, I've seen the policies on the inside...they are REALLY pushing to save money and make things more efficient.

    They even have an annual contest where ALL government employees participate (including contractors too...),
    where they all submit ideas to save money...and the winner gets to go to the White House and be presented an award.

    They also have a new department dedicated to looking for waste and increasing real efficiency.
     
  3. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Romney's criticism of Obama's welfare policies has generated some controversy.

    Here is Romney's ad:

    View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F4LtTlktm0


    Here is one response regarding the legitimacy of the claims:

    View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNq4fXMJZWk


    Here is some discussion of the implications. Is it a racial issue? Does it feed into class war?
    Ron Fournier: Romney is playing a racial game - The Plum Line - The Washington Post

    It certainly generates passionate debate. For example:

    View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhFae8r0_E8


    (Full clip here: Harris-Perry: Nothing is riskier than being poor in America - Video on NBCNews.com)
     
  4. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    And we see Romney finally dive into the realm of Foreign Policy.
    And seemingly lands nice sharp painful one ...one where you go, "Oooo...that's gotta hurt"

    Now, this is where the President is distinctly in control.
    Commander in Chief.
    Global Theater
    In charge of Dept. of State.

    Not like the economy where any control is the equivalent to hang-gliding on a windy day.
    Or having Congress in control or leading...and him just making "suggestions"

    So far from what I've seen...he's 0 for 2 on Foreign Policy matters.
    First...the "awkward" statement on the Olympics to the Brits...one of our main allies.
    Then this...

    Not looking very Presidential there...
    Better snap it up, quick.

    BTW...this is where McCain lost it last time...mid-September...crisis came along...McCain didn't look in control, in touch...Obama looked firm, like a leader.
    It was the beginning of the Economic Crises...and McCain had a series of mis-cues...things that didn't play off well.
    That was the turning point...Obama didn't look back.

    Here we are again...mid-Sept...as Yogi Berra said..."It's Deja Vu all over again"

     
  5. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Mitt Romney, flushed and shifty-eyed, stepped to a podium Wednesday morning with a chance to disavow the despicable late-night attack his campaign launched on President Obama. Instead he intensified it, and that’s why he’ll never be president.

    To the point, but is it true?

    Will Romney be able to recover from this? Is there even anything to recover from?

    Isn't this election a vote for Obama vs. a vote for anyone but Obama?

    Let's also not forget the short attention spans of Americans. Romney, if anything, just needs to bank on Tea Party rage.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2012
  6. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Too true...I will admit that Americans have a severe case of Attention Deficit Disorder.

    Squirrel !! :rolleyes:
     
  7. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    Luckily, the Tea Party still hasn't infected the masses with their disillusions. While they are a noisy and cranky bunch, they are still just a small percentage overall.

    And you know they will all disappear when the next Republican gets elected, no matter what he does with taxes, the debt, or spending.
     
  8. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    The Tea Party will continue to be a marketing tool for the Koch Brothers as long as they continue to supply the money to keep it going.
     
  9. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Yeah, I suppose that's true. I guess who I really meant were those who think severe spending cuts and more tax cuts are the way to go. You know, quite a bit more broadly than the branded Tea Party movement but still including Tea Partiers.
     
  10. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    this is amazing to watch. we are in the middle of a foreign policy meltdown and all the left can do is attack romney. he has no power over foreign policy atm and the way the administration has handle this is embarrassing actually. what's worse is to see the administration try to pin this crap on a movie that no one even knew about. you don't think all this could of been caused by years of pumping and dumping dictators, and supporting both sides of every conflict in the middle east do you? apparently they don't enjoy our kentic love bombs as much as we thought.

    our foreign policy of spreading democracy sure is having unintended consequences.

    but oh yeah romney said something stupid, can you not see the log in your own eyes?

    i think the question should be, is obama ready?
     
  11. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    What do you mean that's all they can do? Are they not talking about Benghazi? About Libya? About the militants? Where are you getting that idea from? What's embarrassing about how the admin is handling it? I don't understand what you mean exactly. Can you clarify?

    Well, if that's the case, Obama just sent the Marines to the wrong place.

    It's certainly more plausible than simply some movie. That might explain the military hardware and personnel.

    I think you give America too much credit for Libya.

    Why are you trying to make this personal? Are you trying to deflect from Romney's seriously ill-advised politicking? He deserves any political fallout he gets from this. Don't make this about anyone other than him and his campaign. (Also, it's not just the left that has responded to this negatively.)

    It's a bit too early to tell, isn't it? The attack wasn't that long ago.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. roachboy

    roachboy Very Tilted

    you know, i have been following this latest situation in egypt and libya and elsewhere pretty closely. i haven't the first idea what the fuck the right is talking about. i don't think they know.

    first off, the "trailer" for a non-existent movie by a non-existent director was shown on an mb-controlled tv station in egypt.
    then the mb called for the fucking protests.
    morsi had been hosting and/or negociating with a group of us-based deep pockets. egypt needs dough to go to something beyond the on-going us bribe to the military for going along with camp david.
    we are two days from that noxious conservative ritual of self-pity and racism that the commemoration of the 9/11/2001 have long since turned into.
    somewhere in the mb the decision was made to stage an action in order to solidify its position amongst its conservative demographic.
    local conditions matter.

    what's interesting is: how did the mb television station in egypt find out about this dissociatve, amazingly stupid "trailer"?
    it's interesting that this happens two months before the election. last election, it was the equally fake "ground zero mosque" bullshit that got the racist set all riled up.
    it's just interesting to think about.


    in libya, there appears to have been a pre-meditated assault on a consulate in benghazi by a militia that may or may not be acting to avenge the killing of an aq leader whose name escapes me. what went down happened largely because it was a consulate and not an embassy. the size of the action overwhelmed the security that was in place, and the consulate offered no protection.

    the demo that was linked to the business in egypt apparently had nothing to do with the attack. some of the people from the demo got stevens to a hospital.

    there were demos all over libya opposing what happened in benghazi--that of course escaped the notice of the the conservative press, and got scant coverage in the mainstream press. the libyan government announced arrests this afternoon, of course.

    what exactly happened (in the sense of who carried out the attack) is not clear to those of us little people who follow infotainment streams available to the public.

    Libya Recap: Snapshots from Social Media


    libya remains pretty complex, recovering from a bloody civil war and confronted with considerable political fragmentation. what's clear is that the group who carried out the attack has little popular support.

    the us press has returned to not knowing where the place is. that's apparently opened the doors---again---for the conservative press to just make things up. to act as though the nature of the libyan government is somehow the problem is to assume that the us press left because everything was hunky dory. that's idiocy. the right has been driven a little crazy by obama's generally right-wing foreign policy---especially the us role in libya---and are simply looking for ways to portray benghazi as an outcome of some defect in obama's policy.

    there are problems there, but conservatives in the united states neither know nor are interested in any of them.

    yemen should not surprise since the united states has been waging an arm's length war there for several years.

    neither is sudan, but for very different reasons.

    but hey, why bother to differentiate when it's so much easier to know fuck all about what you're talking about but still be convinced that "us foreign policy is in disarray"

    romney demonstrated that he and his staff are simply idiots.

    the only regime that seems to think romney a good idea is netanyahu's government in israel.

    Benjamin Netanyahu's Neocon Gambits : The New Yorker
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2012
  13. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    I concur with your suspicion of the events...as do the SME's and serious media.
    While I'm not one for conspiracy by intent...typically it's more of an after the fact CYA...this does seem to be the case here.
    A planned series of events to instigate, distract and execute...by none other than likely Al Qaeda...at least this is the current culprit.
    The film is a dupe.
    The protests were a ploy.
    The killings were direct and with intent.
    And the quickly expanding background on this is starting to show this was all planned out with internal assistance.

    I don't like how Romney and the GOP is reacting to the reaction of the distracting protest.

    Whereas, Obama and his administration is treating it more as a mystery to be solved...than react to.
    Oh sure, they put a couple of Destroyers over on the coast...to "show strength" and "indirect intimidation"...but nothing is being done with that.
    More action is being done to figure out what the hell went on...who did it, when and why.
    They aren't attacking their opponents...except for a quick wit sarcasm on the response ...or attacking the countries or their governments.
    But they are treating it as a police/FBI investigation moreso.

    I appreciate this, it gets to the true matter, the true criminals...and doesn't overreact...which is EXACTLY what they plan was trying to provoke.
    Oh sure, some of the reactionary masses are going overkill, but they are victims in and of themselves...being pushed & manipulated by insiders.
    But our own Government didn't fall for the dupe.

    Seemingly, Romney and the GOP did...they'd fall right into the instigating hands of Al Qaeda trying to create an ideological war.

    Link - Noting Obama telling the "unstable" nations to get their act together...but not provoking with rhetoric.

    Kudos to the current players for playing it right...keeping calm in a storm. The grown-up in the room.
    Thumbs down to Romney for falling for the ploy. Playing for the politics.

    Not looking very presidential there, sir.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  14. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    obama's right wing foreign policy is correct. what's crazy is why isn't there any more outrage from the left about this? i mean we expect this crap from the right, but not the nobel peace prize winning leftist obama. he has basically continued the bush/neocon plan from the late 90's called Project for New American Century. essentially it laid the blueprint for iraq, iran, aphganistan egypt libya etc on how to overthrow the dictators. although obama is doing it more covertly, he is still following the plan to a t. to see the left supporting obama as he follows the neocon plan is both humorous and disturbing.

    the bush neocon's didn't get everything done as quickly as they wanted to due to anti-war resistance from the left. good thing we have obama now to get their plan right back on track.
     
  15. roachboy

    roachboy Very Tilted

    first off, welcome to the reality of empire. nice to see you.
    second. pnac was primarily obsessed with iraq, if you remember. their legacy was the iraq war. they created it. they should own it, as capitalists like to say these days. to my mind, owning it should include a nice long visit to a war crimes trial in the hague.

    obama accepted the "war on terror." he campaigned on it. he's a centrist. there's no surprise.
    like alot of people on the left, i have not liked that aspect of the obama administration's foreign policy, or the consequences of that for the notion of the imperial presidency bequeathed like so many other steaming balls of shit by the bush people.

    on egypt, it is simply false to see how the us played things as following on the neo-con logic. same in libya. simply false.
    in egypt, the fix was not in so far as the political expression of the overthrow of mubarak was concerned--if you think the admin is happy with the muslim brotherhood, you're dreaming. where the fix lay was with the military. the united states pays them 1.3 billion a year in effective bribes for supporting camp david. egypt is crucial for legitimating the otherwise entirely insane policy toward israel. i have no faith, whatsoever, that a republican administration would not have fucked things up in egypt.

    i have to go. maybe more on this later.
     
  16. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    welcome to reality? i've been there since the start of the iraq war. it would be nice to see more obama sheep to join this reality.

    you are naive to think pnac was mainly about iraq. it is a comprehensive plan to over throw the last wild west of nation states known as the middle east. it merely started with iraq. the pnac neo-cons continue to pump this shit in articles and media talk shows today.

    it's funny you assume the republicans would of fucked up egypt, while i agree with you it implies obama some how did it right. as we can see most recently with saddam in iraq, getting rid of a dictator is actually a very small part of successful regime change. the consequences of obama's actions in egypt and libya might not be realized for years or even decades. right now we are dealing with the ambassador of our embassy being killed and drug through the streets as well as assaults on other embassys. it's not looking good on any front and all his administration can do is talk about romney.

    i mean i can understand him blaming bush somehow for starting the 'war on terror', but romney? we are in the midst of a foreign policy disaster, obama and the left need to get with the program.
     
  17. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Do I have to point this out to you again? The administration is doing more than talk about Romney. How can you even say that? Pretty much everyone who reads this has access to Google. What part of Obama's talking to leaders in Libya and Egypt and vowing action on the perpetrators on the embassy don't you understand?

    If the administration is talking about Romney, it's in response to his idiocy. It needs to be done. He's the Republican presidential candidate in an election year. (The election is in a couple of months in case you didn't notice.) It kinda goes with the territory. They can't just ignore him unfortunately.

    Can you elucidate what you mean by "get with the program"? What program? The American foreign policy status quo? Wait, are you upset that Obama hasn't ordered something blown up yet? Out of all the steps Obama has taken in this issue so far, what do you agree with? Disagree with? What hasn't he done that he should do?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  18. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    it's more hindsight like maybe not meddling in other countries, supporting both sides of conflicts, over throwing dictators etc. also maybe listening to 'credible information 48 hours before attack' on the eve of freakin 9/11. it's also the arrogance of the administration like hillary on gadaffi 'we came, we saw, he died', and then her acting suprised how a country we helped could do this to our diplomat.

    do these people really think dropping bombs won't have negative consequenes? we are facing another fiasco in syria and iran if the admistration continues this insane policy of world policeman.

    no i'm not asking for him to blow something up, im just wanting him to stop playing world dictator while trying to divert attention on this to romney.
     
  19. roachboy

    roachboy Very Tilted

    us foreign policy in the middle east did not come into being with the war in iraq. the center of it is, and remains, access to oil and other resources. the realpolitik works in a straight line from that. the history of us policy in the region is available...michael klare's resource wars is a bit old, but is still a very good introduction. i did not look at all the chapters here, but i expect that at least chunks are available:

    Resource Wars: The New Landscape of Global Conflict - Michael T. Klare - Google Books

    it makes sense to look into the history before you start talking about some kind of disaster in the region.

    what i see is consistencies more. the united states got into bed with scaf to contain the rebellion that overthrew mubarak. they did it to protect egypt as a partner in the camp david thing. that morsi was elected creates real problems for that game...so you're seeing insofar as the united states is concerned a kinda complicated dance going on. egypt needs more dough and fast...morsi appears to want to assert civilian control over the egyptian government---which the united states would be cool with because it reduces the political risks run by scaf being explicitly in power, which in turn provides the united states with its leverage over egyptian policy choices again. the problem is that morsi is muslim brotherhood. i wouldn't be surprised to see alot of this sort of contradictory movement going on for some time. in other words, what's happening in egypt has fuck all to do with the one-dimensional take you're getting in the american press, which has tended to collapse everything together in order to create some illusion of discontinuity in general.

    libya is another matter, like i said above.
    yemen yet another. drone war, collateral damage---the right's war on terror is a significant feature of yemeni reality. you cannot imagine that everyone is all "yay usa" about that shit. you have to be in a fact-free space to imagine otherwise.

    and so on.

    i do not like the extent to which obama is a centrist---center-right on foreign policy matters. i particularly do not like the extent to which the obama administration found itself so distracted by the economic disaster left behind by the bush people that the admin was not able to do something about it's policy toward israel---don't get me started on my disgust about the netanyahu government and their vile settlement policies. what's sure is that the republicans would be infinitely worse in terms of grovelling at the feet of the israeli right. even if nothing else were problematic about republican foreign policy proposals---made largely by the same fucking people from the bush period----john bolton as an advisor? hello?----this would be enough for me to rule them out.

    maybe i'll get back to a more left perspective on the declining american empire. but it's not real relevant in terms of the us national elections. no-one is addressing that coherently at this point.
     
  20. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    People are suspecting that this is the work of Islamic militants, not "a country we helped." Many everyday Libyans have severely condemned these attacks.

    Each of these situations are different. What happened in Libya isn't the same as Afghanistan and Iraq. So what "consequences" in Libya are you talking about? America didn't lead the military intervention in Libya. Are you speaking about anything specifically, or are you just going on about the West's meddling in a generic sense?

    Also, what will happen with Syria or Iran will likely depend on the next administration. Romney seems interested in doing something to Iran. I don't see Syria being anything other than a political mess. You have Islamists; you have Russia and Iran supporting Syria; you have Al-Qaeda opposing Assad; you have Turkey and Saudi Arabia supporting the opposition. You should be happy that Obama hasn't stuck his nose in that, at least. Right? Well, besides aiding in funding the opposition. It's a matter of degrees, I suppose.

    How is he playing dictator exactly? How is he trying to divert attention on this to Romney?

    Maybe it's merely in response to this kind of thing? Romney adviser blames Obama for Libya, Egypt attacks — CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012