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Rachel Maddow explains contraception and birth control... for the guys

Discussion in 'Tilted Life and Sexuality' started by DamnitAll, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. Hektore

    Hektore Slightly Tilted

    Maybe someone can help me out here. I always thought the 'right to an abortion' existed in privacy rights. You know, bodily autonomy. The nearest example I can think of is guy, lets call him Fred, who needs a kidney transplant. Nobody says Fred isn't alive or that Fred doesn't deserve the opportunity to live, they're saying Fred can't force me, nor the state on behalf of Fred, to give up my kidney because it's my own body. Fred's right to live ends where my kidney begins.

    Same thing with abortion; the fetus' right to life ends where the mother's uterus begins. I don't see how it matters at all whether or not we call it 'alive'.

    Also, the whole outlawing abortion in all circumstances opens up a huge can of medical worms with implications I doubt even a single politician understands(unless there happens to be a practicing Ob/Gyn somewhere in congress). Hormonal birth control is just the tip of the iceberg.

    What happens in an ectopic pregnancy?
    How about smoking or drinking; do they qualify as negligence?
    What about not taking a multivitamin; is that negligence?
    Do we stop performing emergency abortions? Even if it results in the death of the mother?
    Is a mother to be allowed to refuse drugs to stop preterm labor? Even if it might result in the death of her unborn child? Even if those drugs have side effect that could kill her?
    Can doctors from other countries who have performed abortions still come to the US?
    Are doctors that perform in vitro procedures now serial killers?

    These questions are relevant and deserve answers, and by no means is that list exhaustive.

    It's very had for me to take anyone seriously as a person when they claim that criminalizing any harm to a zygote is a good idea.
     
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  2. Carbonic

    Carbonic Getting Tilted

    A few years ago - just after the 2008 election - I spoke to someone who once worked in the Romney gubernatorial administration. The person I spoke to was a moderate New England Republican who explained that he liked Romney... until he got crazy (read: until he decided to run for president and pander to the far right). This is just the latest example of that.
     
  3. Willravel

    Willravel Getting Tilted

    As far as the current law works, yes. However, those who are against all forms of abortion do not believe that it's a privacy issue, they believe it's an issue of murder. Because, in their minds, life begins the very second an egg is fertilized, any ending of that life is the taking of a life just the same as if you pushed me off a bridge. They refuse to accept the current legal framing of the issue, so arguing it from that perspective would, I'm guessing, be entirely meaningless to them.

    The argument I usually end up making to try and bring them around is how an embryo or a fetus, like any other organ in the body, exists only based on its continuing to exist in the body. If it's removed, unless there's some technological assistance, it ceases to function. If my heart is removed from my chest, it no longer receives orders from my brain to beat and it no longer gets fresh oxygen and nutrients from my blood, so it ceases functioning and eventually is rendered "dead" (not like murdered dead, but totaled my car dead). Likewise, if an embryo or fetus is removed from the body before the appropriate gestation and developmental time is finished, it will cease functioning. While it is in the mother's body, the nutrients and oxygen and waste disposal are all taken care of outside of the still-developing organism. Because there's a fundamental biological link between the expectant mother and the embryo or fetus, considering it an individual under the law is quite simply premature. The moment the fetus is disconnected and becomes an infant, that's no longer the case, which means when the little guy or little gal is disconnected from the placenta and the umbilical cord, outside of the mother, then it is an independent life form and, as a human member of our society, earns certain rights we have in our laws. It's not an easy argument to make, admittedly, but I think I've had it enough time that I can at least articulate my point to a necessary clarity.
     
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