Occupy Wall Street

cynthetiq · Oct 16, 2011

Remixer said: ↑

Eddie, have a look at Australia and New Zealand. The Queen has no power. In reality, the Queen means shit.

Regardless, after reading up on world events on the BBC, I really have to say I'm impressed by the Occupy movement's expansion to other countries. Well, it served more as an inspiration for similar movements, but I'll describe them under the banner of the Occupy movement.

Madrid, Dublin, London, European Central Bank (Frankfurt), Athens and Rome. Very nicely done. Especially in Rome with tens of thousands turning up to protest. You've so far got the public understanding from figures such as Soros and Italy's central bank chief.

Hope this will continue to grow. Once they reach the hundreds of thousands, the movement can't be ignored anymore.
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I believe that the roots of OWS was international to begin with since Adbusters of Canda was the initiator making the call for people.

Charlatan · Oct 16, 2011

If the protesters fight back. It will not go well for them. It's far better for them to let the police take the fight to them.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

The one thing I would like to see more of is an articulation of why this is happening. Once people hear the stats understand why this is happening (and not just assuming it's a bunch of young punks looking for a free handout) they will support it.
--- merged: Oct 16, 2011 8:05 AM ---
And fucking hell, why does Glenn Beck keep getting a voice?

roachboy · Oct 16, 2011

violence is a stupid idea.

the classical scenario in revolutionary theory is that non-violent social movements that become a real danger to the established order bring violence down on them from the state.

in marxist theory, the massacre that ended the paris commune and systematic purge of the communards that followed lead engels to argue that revolutionary movements had to see revolution in terms of civil war and themselves become military. this was the place that made leninist-style party organization viable within that general framework--previously---and after the debacle that leninism became in the ussr---the dominant way of thinking about social revolution was much more like what you see ows doing particularly in its direct-democratic process of self-organization. peaceful. sustained pressure. not stopping.

ows, which is not a revolutionary movement really---thought it could become one---but at this point, it's largely a performed critique of the lunacy of neo-liberal capitalism that is directed against the plutocracy that runs the show in the u.s. of a. but isn't offering either a specific platform or a set of specific alternatives that should be put in place. two things are obviously going on: there is a corrosion of what consent remained for the present form of capitalist organization that has spilled very quickly into the mainstream and has surprisingly widespread support nationally (a time poll put favorable views at well over 50%...which i take merely as an indicator of high visibility, at least at the symbolic level) and a process of linking up with the international occupation/protest movements, so that at this point it's not an exaggeration to say that this movement is now happening in around 1000 cities around the world. and as that keeps going, the pressure on the neo-liberal political system in general is going to increase. at some point, something is going to have to give.

at the same time, the visibility of the movement, the speed of communication--particularly video clips---puts real limits on the ability of the ruling apparatus to use violence. what you're seeing mostly is running conflicts over meaning, in the sense of political speech directed at the whole of the neo-liberal thing that's treating sites occupied in primarily a symbolic manner encountering police actions which are geared around material questions of circulation and legality of this or that move. and to this point, the police are losing in a broader sense, in a political sense. which is why it's really stupid, politically, to be using the police as nyc and chicago (for example) have been.

it's fundamentally important that the occupation maintain non-violence because it's at the ethical center of the critique that they are performing through the occupations themselves. this ethical core is, i think, a considerable factor in explaining the support the movement already has. state violence, even in the form of local police action, accelerates the spread of that support---it's having and will continue to have the opposite effect from that which the cities would like. and it draws the conflict lines pretty clearly. it's a stupid idea to continue reacting.

mixedmedia · Oct 17, 2011

My mother emailed this to me this morning.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44921688/ns/us_news-life/t/feeding-masses-fueling-movement/#

Feeding the masses, fueling a movement

'Occupy Wall Street' kitchen is heart of encampment

By HELEN O'NEILL

updated 10/16/2011 2:41:36 PM ET

New York — Seventy-year-old Phyllis Coelho plunged her blue gloved hands into a plastic sink of gray soapy water and spent an afternoon last week cheerfully washing dishes "to support the revolution." The retired social worker had traveled from Belfast, Maine, the day before with her 78-year-old friend and fellow dishwasher, Jane Sanford.

They headed directly to the protest at Zuccotti Park because, they said, it was time to "show up."

At a table behind her, Nan Terrie, an 18-year-old law student from Orlando, Fla., was furiously chopping carrots and onions even as she juggled cell phone calls from people wanting to donate food, and handed hastily scribbled "to do" lists for other volunteers. Anj Ferrara, a 24-year-old artist, was tearing open some of the 40 boxed pizzas that had just arrived. And Tom Hintze, a 24-year-old bike tour guide, was trying to figure out the logistics of getting a truck and driver to pick up massive trays of pulled pork that someone wanted to send from Brooklyn.

The makeshift "kitchen" in the center of the park is the ever-evolving heart of the Occupy Wall Street encampment, managing to feed thousands daily even as it scrambles to figure out how to deal with an endless flow of donations.

But the people who work there — and those they serve — say it is much more, imbuing it with the same fervor that has marked the protests from the beginning.

"Revolution is fueled by eggplant parmigiana!" cried David Everitt-Carlson, smacking his lips and cleaning his plate after dinner. Sitting cross-legged in a cardboard box daubed with the words "I think outside the box" the unemployed 55-year-old said that, after months of homelessness, he had never eaten better.
Bagels and eggs for breakfast; pizza and burritos for lunch; fresh salads, organic vegetables and casseroles, pasta or barbecue chicken for dinner. Endless helpings — all fresh, all free. And all served amid the deafening din of protest: masks and marchers, drums circles and dancers, chanters gripping signs exploding with rage at corporate gluttony, all surrounded by barricades and a phalanx of police officers.

"There is so much ingenuity and innovation right here in this kitchen that is so lacking in so many other areas of the country," said Sam Tresler, a 32-year-old consultant from Brooklyn as he dropped off a pot of mashed potatoes he had cooked that morning. "It's inspiring."

The kitchen has no on-site oven or refrigerator or stove, just fold-up tables, tarps, racks of food and tanks of water.

Truckloads of fresh fruit and vegetables arrive daily from organic farms in upstate New York and Vermont and Massachusetts, steaming containers of chicken and rice, burritos and lasagna are sent from restaurants all over the city, tubs of Ben and Jerry's chocolate and cookie dough ice cream arrived one sunny morning (and was scooped by the company's chairman of the board, Jeff Furman), and there is a seemingly never-ending delivery of pizza pies, ordered by phone from supporters all over the world.

'Pure and inspirational'

In the general spirit of the protest, the kitchen has no appointed leaders, just what volunteers jokingly refer to as an "organic hierarchy," meaning those that have been around the longest make the key decisions and assign the daily tasks. Newcomers — and they have come from Haiti and Columbia and Japan as well as from all over America — are generally put on clean-up duty. Others monitor the compost pack and environmental water filtration system.

There is a receiving table for locals who show up with bags of corn or a homegrown eggplant or a bush of basil. At another table a volunteer jots down the names of people who offer their home kitchens for protesters to cook and clean in.

"What you see in this kitchen is pure and inspirational and filled with great hope that we are moving towards something better," says Hintze, who generally makes a living hosting bike tours around the country. But he says he wouldn't be anywhere else. "We needed a reality check and the Arab Spring gave us one. This is where I'm meant to be."

As he is speaking an 80-year-old Jamaican woman who is visiting her daughter in Queens walks up, gives him a great big hug, and gleefully stuffs a single $100 bill into the plastic donations container. She doesn't want to be named, she says, because she intends to do the same next week and "I don't want people to think I'm rich."

Later another woman silently drops an envelope containing $1,000. Other donations have come from organized groups. The Corrections Officers' Benevolent Association of New York City donated food to feed approximately 800 people. And the United Federation of Teachers donated a huge storage space on Broadway, about seven blocks away, where the hundreds of UPS boxes arriving every day — filled with canned food, and sleeping bags and blankets — are sorted and stored.

But from the kitchen perspective, the most crucial donation happened a few days ago, when the Rev. Leopoldo Carl of Overcoming Love Ministries in Brooklyn wandered into the park and offered the use of his soup kitchen — a state-of-the-art commercial operation capable of cooking for more than 1,500. The church, he said, had plenty of cold storage too.

"My congregation wants to help," he boomed. "And many of them are homeless."

Volunteer Heather Squire was incredulous. She had spent the past week desperately searching for such a space, so that the protesters could store fresh produce for the winter and move away from the daily trips to home kitchens that are simply not equipped to cook in volume. She had even talked with a real estate agent about renting a commercial facility — a sore point among some protesters who would rather spend donated money on food.

"I'm an atheist," Squire says. "But there is something mystical happening here."

The 31-year-old sociology graduate from New Jersey works in restaurants because she has been unable to find a permanent job. She joined the movement on Oct. 1, the day of the march on the Brooklyn Bridge and was one of 700 arrested that day. It was "chilling" being behind bars for hours, Spire said, but it solidified her resolve to stay with the protesters. And so, the next day, she found herself washing dishes in a very different kind of kitchen.

Amy Hamburger, 29, had been backpacking in Kentucky a short time before the protest began, but came home to Queens to spend time with her ailing father. A friend encouraged her to go to the first protest and though she had never considered herself an activist, something compelled her to stay.

'Amazing synchronicity'

"It just feels like this is exactly where I am meant to be," said an exhausted looking Hamburger one evening last week, red-eyed from working at the kitchen for nearly 48 hours. By now, she's getting used to lack of sleep. She has been volunteering since the very beginning, when protesters were surviving on peanut butter sandwiches and pizza. For Hamburger, the evolution of the kitchen has been nothing short of a miracle.

"There is this amazing synchronicity," she said. "Every time we really need something, it just seems to appear."

"There's a gestalt here," said Deborah Mulligan a 57-year-old attorney from Madison, Wis., who, having slept on the marble floors of Wisconsin's State Capitol during the union protests last winter, felt an obligation to join the protesters in New York. "When you eat together and break bread together, you talk and you learn and you get even more informed and inspired," she said.

Shane Stoops, who has also been in the kitchen since the beginning, has a more personal take. The self-described "Renaissance man" from Washington state says he has always been a bit "radical" and always had a testy relationship with his dad, a shipyard pipefitter.

"For the first time in his life, my father told me he was proud of me for standing up for something I believe in," said Stoops, 23. "Feeding people is a beautiful thing, but so was hearing those words."
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cynthetiq · Oct 17, 2011

Thanks for that. I've been wondering the logistics of the space. When I was there I did see the infamous table and people cutting breads and prepping food. It was something just above a craft service table in it's offerings. I'm glad to see it has evolved and goes beyond my earlier statements.

I am now wondering how if the Department of Health can make any statements about the food since there is no refrigeration or open flame.

Joniemack · Oct 17, 2011

Contrasting psychologies
http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddessig/2011/10/16/the-contrasting-psychologies-of-occupy-wall-street-and-the-tea-party/2/

The Contrasting Psychologies of 'Occupy Wall Street' and the 'Tea Party'
10/16/2011 @ 1:46PM
Todd Essig
What to make of Occupy Wall Street: ignore it as silly excess or embrace the movement? celebrate the energy or ridicule the process? fear the consequences or welcome the possibilities? No easy answers, except for the wrong ones. What can be said is that how you respond at this still early stage depends on how your psychology fits, or doesn’t, with the psychology of this emerging movement, and how that fit contrasts with the very different psychology of the Tea Party.

One is primarily a psychology of exclusion, the other inclusion. But both start with deep similarities: anger, fear, frustration, resentment, and an enduring faith in democratic ideals (why else participate?). No one likes what’s been going on since the Bush-era housing bubble burst and we woke up to the fact that buying and selling houses to each other with money borrowed from China was no way to run an economy. A majority then bought into a message of hope and change without fully realizing hope is so very fragile (“a thing with feathers, That perches in the soul”) and change is scary-messy. Many who didn’t buy in have then gone on to reject anything Obama proposes, even when they themselves have previously expressed agreement with the very same idea.

In other words, we’re in a real mess with lots of reasons to be upset. No differences there. The differences between the Tea Party position and that of Occupy Wall Street emerge in how that upset is expressed, in how solutions are sought. If we think of the Tea Party starting with a rebel’s yell of “get your f-in hands off my f-in stuff” then OWS begins with a naive complaint about being hungry while others unfairly have too much, “how much stuff do you really need, really, to have a good life?”

From the start the Tea Party was about safety through exclusion, protecting oneself from outside influences—including a President seen as an un-American “other,” perhaps for racial reasons, perhaps other reasons as well. What the Tea Party rejected was anything perceived by them as coming from outside the center of America. It’s not us, it’s never us; it’s them. Bad things were by definition “un-American” or “against the Constitution.”

America, the true America uncontaminated by outside influence, is therefore exceptional by definition. And not just exceptional, but Exceptional. We’re good, they’re bad, regardless of who they are and what we do. No matter that you have no job, no healthcare; you’re an American and your suffering is “their” fault. This Tea Party message soothes through exclusion. What we now need to do is close ranks, reduce outside influence and go back to how wonderful it used to be when we were uncontaminated by outsiders. America, real America, the America envisioned by our Founding Fathers, is where goodness is found. Lock the doors and windows; never explain, never excuse; don’t tread on me. Of course, the price paid for such a pristine American vision of self is always feeling persecuted by neighbors against whom one must remain constantly vigilant.

The start of OWS is radically different. Everyone is included, everyone gets to have a say. Rather than policy they have process. The “we” of OWS is worldwide, a globalized, networked “we” full of good and bad existing simultaneously and everywhere. The messier the better; better to let in those you don’t want then miss out on including those you do. Of course, inclusion can be a big problem because people say and do lots of really stupid things. And all that stupidity is then felt as “us,” not “them.” But that’s the trade-off of inclusion; you have to take the good along with bad.

This path to a better America, a better world, includes living with some fear that getting your needs met might mean hurting someone else about whom you care. Rather than the constant state of hyper-vigilance that comes from the Tea Party’s psychology of exclusion, OWS inclusion carries with it a sadness that no repair is ever perfect, that even the most exceptional America possible will still and always fall short of our aspirational ideals. And beneath the various critiques, like the ratio of CEO to worker compensation almost doubling in the last 10 years, there is a wild optimism at the wooly center of OWS. You see it at the marches, in the music, when you listen to people at Zuccotti Park organizing the clean-up to avoid police action. What becomes clear through a psychological lens is the optimism of cooperation and relationship, of being imperfect together, of searching for repair as community even while knowing no repair is perfect.

For Tea Party members, the world will always remain full of persecutory others (Obama’s the devil!!) while OWS holds out the promise of community, no, of communities of difference. The effort after inclusiveness can be so dramatically full of sympathy and concern for others that you may feel the movement respecting your subjective experience before they even know what their own point of view is. But if you knit together the union worker and ex-hippie, the college student sharing some shade with the cop, you find a belief that working together instead of against each other presents the very real possibility that people will end up not as triumphant winners but as people with enough—and in a radically inclusive networked world enough is, well, enough.

Of course, moving from the psychology of protest to specific policy recommendations is the responsibility not of the protestors whose message needs to be heard but of political leaders. And I want to note that there’s something profoundly anti-capitalist about the critics of OWS. It’s a movement about which capitalists, real capitalists who work hard and smart, have nothing to fear. Oligarchs, on the other hand, should be afraid, very afraid. Entrepreneurs and corporate leaders will find a way to make money and allocate capital so that jobs are created even in a workable financial system. Sure, breaking-up the incestuous relationship between Wall Street and K Street will change the rules of the game, but it won’t end the game. Maybe wealth disparity will shrink, maybe CEOs will make slightly less relative to average workers. But the entrepreneurial spirit will still triumph. Who knows, just like Steve Jobs emerged from the ethos of 1960s radicalism and spiritual-seeking, perhaps the 21st century’s next great industrialist will emerge from the Zuccotti Park tripod tarps and all-inclusive General Assembly in which everyone has a say.

As for me, obviously, I’m inclined towards inclusion, relationship, and sadness rather than exclusion, competition, and suspiciousness. And I know lots could go wrong. Extremism and fools, even violence, are all possible. But the essential message of getting Wall Street money out of K Street pockets, of realizing that corporations are not people, of treating people like people, of letting capitalists win over oligarchs all together means hope can once again perch in the soul. More than anything else, OWS is helping facilitate a shift in psychological values from more—and then more more—to enough, from the destructive envy of raging at someone who has more to the genuine satisfaction of appreciating what one has.
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It's long but worth the read, I think. May explain, psychologically at least, why the Tea Party is not embracing this movement, despite some overlapping ideology.

Eddie · Oct 18, 2011

Uh, the reason that neither the Tea Party nor Obama for that matter, have embraced the Occupy Wall St movement is because we live in a democratic republic. If you want to effect change you need place the people who will represent you into an elected seat by voting. That's the way it works. You're not going to bypass the democratic process in this nation, no matter how many screaming people you get into Times Square holding up cardboard signs.

Charlatan · Oct 18, 2011

An interesting reply to the post above (well, it's addressing someone else, but it applies).

It's an update to this article: Glenn Greenwald -What are those OWS people so angry about?

UPDATE IV: In Slate, Anne Applebaum actually argues that the Wall Street protests are anti-democratic because of their “refusal to engage with existing democratic institutions.” In other words, it’s undemocratic to protest oligarchic rule; if these protesters truly believed in democracy, they would raise a few million dollars, hire lobbying firms filled with ex-political officials, purchase access to and influence over political leaders, and then use their financial clout to extract the outcomes they want. Instead, they’re attempting to persuade their fellow citizens that we live under oligarchy, that our democratic institutions are corrupted and broken, and that fundamental change is urgent — an activity which, according to Applebaum, will “simply weaken the [political system] further.”

Could someone please explain to her that this is precisely the point? Protesting a political system and attempting to achieve change outside of it is “anti-democratic” only when the political system is a healthy and functioning democracy. Oligarchies and plutocracies don’t qualify.
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Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass if Obama supports them or not. I turns out he was not the change we were looking for...

That said, Hope is still alive.

cynthetiq · Oct 18, 2011

Well apparently it doesn't it in some places...

Occupy Singapore: Fail

Protestors in Singapore gathered last Saturday at Raffles Place (the Wall Street equivalent of Singapore) emulating the Occupy Wall Street movement in the United States.

Perhaps picking a Saturday afternoon is not the best choice for creating a protest of maximum impact, but what’s disappointing is the lack of fervor that the movement had.
From The Wall Street Journal,

The small crowd at the central square outside Raffles Place MRT station included mostly journalists and photographers, looking listless and bored. Some plainclothes policemen were also present, after they had earlier warned potential protesters that such a protest would be “unlawful.”

The Facebook page for the event is no longer available, with the group’s @occupysg account posting this message on Twitter: “We should try this again on Monday morning?” The Twitter page has 30 followers.

At 4:15 p.m. Singapore time, two hours after the event was meant to take place, organizers of “Occupy SG” posted this Facebook update: “We are obviously very disappointed with the lack of on the ground support. We take the blame for lack of logistics and planning and we apologise for any inconvenience caused.”

The Business Insider posted a concise article delineating reasons for the Occupy Wall Street protest, citing reasons such as “the highest level of unemployment since the Great Depression”, “corporate profits at an all-time high”, “wages as a percentage of the economy are at an all-time low”, and lastly, “income and wealth inequality in the US economy is near at an all-time high.”
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Charlatan · Oct 18, 2011

Yes, it was rather quiet in Raffles Place on Saturday. Here is part of an article that address this. The full article can be read here: Link

What people need to know about Singapore is that public assembly, of more than a small handful of people, is illegal. There were some very nasty riots back in the 60s and laws were enacted to prevent it happening again. There are also laws that curtail free speech. Add to this, the press, for the most part, is government owned (they do a lot of self-censoring).

The voice of dissent is online or abroad.

Singaporeans are facing the same problems
In Singapore, a Facebook group called on Singaporeans to “Occupy Raffles Place” last Saturday. But the police warned the public against the activity. As a result Raffles Place was quiet on Saturday afternoon with a heavy police presence to ensure that no protest took place.
The next day, the Straits Times gloated at the government victory in silencing the people. Their articles entitled “What’s missing in this picture?” and “In Singapore: A handful turns up” painted Singaporeans as too apathetic to care about social or economic issues, not as people who have had their civil rights curtailed by the government.
However, the issues confronting Singaporeans are exactly the same as the issues raised by protestors all around the world.
Just because the majority of people of the civilized world enjoy the freedom of peaceful assembly but we do not, does not make the issues any less real for Singaporeans. The denial of peaceful assembly only serves to sweep the issues under the carpet where they will ferment until the government cannot control or contain them anymore.
In Singapore, we are faced with a deluge of foreigners who compete for jobs without having to serve National Service. Wages of the lower income have stagnated for well over a decade despite the soaring cost of living and the escalating price of public housing. We have public transport operators making record profits year after year and yet at the same time increasing their prices.
Just because Singaporeans are not allowed to exercise basic civil rights does not mean we are not faced with the same challenges and problems as other global citizens. It simply means that the ballot box is the only avenue left to express these issues.
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Derwood · Oct 18, 2011

http://blog.joethepeacock.com/2011/10/i-went-to-occupy-wall-street-this-is.html

This is a great report/photo journal from someone who flew to NYC to see for themselves what was going down.

Baraka_Guru · Oct 18, 2011

by Lemony Snicket

Thirteen Observations made by Lemony Snicket while watching Occupy Wall Street from a Discreet Distance

1. If you work hard, and become successful, it does not necessarily mean you are successful because you worked hard, just as if you are tall with long hair it doesn’t mean you would be a midget if you were bald.

2. “Fortune” is a word for having a lot of money and for having a lot of luck, but that does not mean the word has two definitions.

3. Money is like a child—rarely unaccompanied. When it disappears, look to those who were supposed to be keeping an eye on it while you were at the grocery store. You might also look for someone who has a lot of extra children sitting around, with long, suspicious explanations for how they got there.

4. People who say money doesn’t matter are like people who say cake doesn’t matter—it’s probably because they’ve already had a few slices.

5. There may not be a reason to share your cake. It is, after all, yours. You probably baked it yourself, in an oven of your own construction with ingredients you harvested yourself. It may be possible to keep your entire cake while explaining to any nearby hungry people just how reasonable you are.

6. Nobody wants to fall into a safety net, because it means the structure in which they’ve been living is in a state of collapse and they have no choice but to tumble downwards. However, it beats the alternative.

7. Someone feeling wronged is like someone feeling thirsty. Don’t tell them they aren’t. Sit with them and have a drink.

8. Don’t ask yourself if something is fair. Ask someone else—a stranger in the street, for example.

9. People gathering in the streets feeling wronged tend to be loud, as it is difficult to make oneself heard on the other side of an impressive edifice.

10. It is not always the job of people shouting outside impressive buildings to solve problems. It is often the job of the people inside, who have paper, pens, desks, and an impressive view.

11. Historically, a story about people inside impressive buildings ignoring or even taunting people standing outside shouting at them turns out to be a story with an unhappy ending.

12. If you have a large crowd shouting outside your building, there might not be room for a safety net if you’re the one tumbling down when it collapses.

13. 99 percent is a very large percentage. For instance, easily 99 percent of people want a roof over their heads, food on their tables, and the occasional slice of cake for dessert. Surely an arrangement can be made with that niggling 1 percent who disagree.
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http://occupywriters.com/by-lemony-snicket

More here:
OccupyWriters.com

Charlatan · Oct 18, 2011

Go Lemony Snicket!

Joniemack · Oct 18, 2011

I will share the wisdom that is Lemony Snicket.

Eddie · Oct 19, 2011

This pretty much sums up my opinion of OWS:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-october-18-2011/the-99-

Baraka_Guru · Oct 19, 2011

Eddie said: ↑

This pretty much sums up my opinion of OWS:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-october-18-2011/the-99-
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Their concerns are legitimate, you sympathize with them, but they're annoying and abnormal?

I imagine this is a sentiment shared by many. However, it's the loud, obnoxious, and..um...abnormal who tend to engage in things and hang in there when we "normal" people remain dispassionate (and at home).

But, hey, there's some good TV on this season. (And I have a lot of reading I want to do, and I just started a new video game.)

Eddie · Oct 19, 2011

Baraka_Guru said: ↑

Their concerns are legitimate, you sympathize with them, but they're annoying and abnormal?

I imagine this is a sentiment shared by many. However, it's the loud, obnoxious, and..um...abnormal who tend to engage in things and hang in there when we "normal" people remain dispassionate (and at home).

But, hey, there's some good TV on this season. (And I have a lot of reading I want to do, and I just started a new video game.)
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Skyrim comes out soon. Also, the new season of Dexter and House are great.

Charlatan · Oct 19, 2011

I get that the fringe elements are the folks that get out the protest (or at least are the most visible to the medias unrelenting eye). What would be great would be for those who are in the remaining 98%, who are interested in seeing change to come out on the weekends. Swelling the numbers would be interesting to see.

Sadly, there really isn't a culture of protest in the US.

Eddie · Oct 19, 2011

Charlatan said: ↑

I get that the fringe elements are the folks that get out the protest (or at least are the most visible to the medias unrelenting eye). What would be great would be for those who are in the remaining 98%, who are interested in seeing change to come out on the weekends. Swelling the numbers would be interesting to see.

Sadly, there really isn't a culture of protest in the US.
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Maybe the other 98% realizes that chanting slogans while holding a cardboard sign isn't going to change anything. I'm actually encouraged that only a small percentage of our population is given to such socioeconomic delusions of grandeur.

Bodkin van Horn · Oct 19, 2011

The real path to change is lamenting your fellow citizens' ignorance on the internet, voting every four years for a candidate you know won't win and then complaining bitterly about the implications of his loss Re:the sheeple. Isn't this the libertarian plan?

Charlatan said: ↑

I get that the fringe elements are the folks that get out the protest (or at least are the most visible to the medias unrelenting eye). What would be great would be for those who are in the remaining 98%, who are interested in seeing change to come out on the weekends. Swelling the numbers would be interesting to see.

Sadly, there really isn't a culture of protest in the US.
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We made our way down to our local occupy gathering last weekend. It was pretty chill. The wife pitched in and washed some dishes while I hung out with the kids.

There were a lot of different perspectives, though most folks seemed to be in agreement with the idea that our political system has been corrupted by moneyed interests.

Anyone who tells you that the movement's goals are too disparate doesn't know what they're talking about. The current level of political corruption in the US is like a giant pile of shit in the middle of a crowded living room; most everybody knows its there and would love for it not to be. Currently, the discussion taking place in the media is about how none of the people in the room can agree about what color the drapes should be.

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Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

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Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

Eddie Getting Tilted

Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

Eddie Getting Tilted

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