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Politics Obamacare

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by pan6467, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Well, I'm not sure it's one of the objectives, but it should certainly be an effect.

    As 'Obamacare' Moves Forward Healthcare Jobs Will Be The Fastest Growing In 46 Out Of 50 States - MarketWatch

    When you have millions more people suddenly accessing medical services, it's going to require more capacity. This is solved by increasing the workforce and increasing investment in medical technology/equipment. Efficiency/productivity may be increased, but this alone cannot compensate for a health care system finding itself with millions more patients.
     
  2. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    One of the difficulties for the GOP is, that despite their rage at Obamacare,
    they really don't have a reliable solution or substitute themselves.

    So you're asking me to kill a flawed action which still attempts to address issues and an imbalance,
    with no true action...leaving us to fend with no real privileges or rights??

    Need to come up with something better.
    I'd rather have a crude axe to cut wood, than none at all...
    And who says the axe has to stay crude forever, it can be refined and improved...we're taking ideas, throw them out there.

     
  3. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    That's pretty much it in a nut shell. The party of "no" is also the party of "no answers and solutions."
     
  4. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Well, they do have a solution for Medicare.

    The two faces of Republicans - falsely claim or at least grossly distort cuts by Obama, then gut the program yourself.

    While Romney and Congressional Republicans falsely claiming the law cuts Medicare by $500 billion (it cuts the maximum rate of subsidies to Medicare Advantage providers and slows the growth of future Medicare payments to hospitals, it does not cut benefits to seniors and in fact expands some benefits, like closing the donut hole on the cost of prescriptions, resulting in typical savings of $600/yr last year that will increase in future years ), the House Republicans adopt the Ryan budget (that Romney endorses) that replaces Medicare’s current guarantee of coverage with a premium-support voucher that would shift costs to beneficiaries, raise the age of eligibility from 65 to 67, and reopens the donut on the coverage of prescription drugs.
    --- merged: Jul 6, 2012 at 11:47 PM ---
    Then you have Senate Republican Minority Leader and his "who gives a fuck" about the 30+ million uninsured who would be covered by the law.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2012
  5. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    I saw that Chris Wallace interview, almost couldn't believe Fox aired it. In it McConnell mentions "we have a plan it's been out there since 2010(?) anyone who wants can go look it up. The only thing I could find was a some bill the GOP put forth with like 4-5 vague concepts such as-

    Ok how? With your great common sense? Sorry I don't trust the GOP's common sense. Sounds a lot like an oxymoron to me.


    Ok that's makes sense to me but how many people will suddenly become insured by that? If you couldn't buy insurance before because it was so expensive in your state will it really be so cheap in the neighboring state? Or will this simply create a few states who woo the insurance companies by giving them lax regulations creating a race to the bottom?


    So basically if you have a high deducible you can save, tax free, your own money to pay for that high deducible. Wow that right there should get 10's of millions of uninsured insured.

    Ok this sounds good too. This is the one thing I see on their plan that might actually increase the number of insured people. But when the GOP says stuff like "we will incentivize states to develop innovative programs that lower premiums and reduce the number of uninsured Americans." I'd like some details on how they plan to implement those incentives.

    It just wouldn't be the GOP if they didn't work in some anti-choice provision some how. But this too... exactly how will it increase the number of insured citizens? In my opinion this is a Hail Mary of basically "our plan contains Jack shit but if we throw in some abortion language we'll get our base to sign on to it.

    So yes they have a plan and that plan sucks ass.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2012
    • Like Like x 1
  6. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    A Republican candidate for Congress in NY has another reason for the high cost of health care:
    Oh well, I guess we dont need that pesky provision in the law to encourage preventive care, like free mammograms or colonoscopies (colon cancer is the third leading cause of cancer death among men and women)

    And lets defund Planned Parenthood as well and do away with the free screenings they offer women w/o insurance.
     
  7. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    So basically poor people do not deserve modern medicine?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    I really do think that is a GOP mindset.

    If you're poor, you don't deserve anything.
    Get a decent enough job...one that has benefits, "like everyone else"
    And if you can't, then you're not good enough...and should suffer the consequences.

    Not wanting to consider that there is a breadth of circumstances and situations that could put you in that place, not by choice.
    Including Medical finance overload...
    or Mother Nature wiping out your area...
    or ... or... or...

    The assumption is that all poor people are ignorant, lazy and manipulators of the system.
    At least this is what I've literally heard quite a bit from the GOP and their ardent supporters lately.

    Their philosophy has become profoundly patronizing.

    ------------

    BTW...don't think of me as liberal, there are many conservative values I have.
    However, I also know how to observe and consider...how to get to overall goals for the advantage of the nation.
    And there are many instances where the government is necessary to leverage those individuals in need
    and get them out of the vicious cycle, to push them towards a more stable situation.
    This is better for the nation overall, having more ready individuals available to be productive.

    Humans, are not machines.
    You cannot throw them away. (or at least should not)
    You cannot say, it is not me, I've got mine...there must be something wrong with you.
    Getting them to a point, there is an arc. It is not instantaneous.

    All principals of government are not bad.
    Inefficient government is bad. Un-subtle government is bad.
    Waste due to lingering stagnant policy. Not adjusting for circumstance.
    (Congress is a good example of this, currently)

    Action and resolution requires adjusting for the circumstance and moving forward.
    Review, consider, respond, repeat.
    Yes, this takes effort.
    This takes thought.
    AGAIN and again...

    But if you expect those in need not to be ignorant, neglectful, stagnant or lazy.
    Then your system and government shouldn't be either.

    Ignoring the issue isn't going to make it go away.
    Throwing away our citizens is NOT going to make us successful.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2012
    • Like Like x 4
  9. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    I too have many beliefs that would be considered conservative. Though anymore if you stray from the current decided talking points or issues you're libtard. Ok, fine.. whatever. I still believe the government should stay out of peoples private lives, should not be spending money unwisely, there shouldn't be regulations just for the sake of regulations, I own guns I believe people have the right to own guns etc... But look at the GOP over the last 30 year plus. Have they been wise with spending? No, hell no. The debt and deficit goes up far more under GOP controlled government then with Dems. Least that how it's worked since I started voting. Are they really not interested in peoples private lives? I'd say out of the two parties the GOP is more interested in your bedroom life, how you decide to entertain yourself, who you marry then the Dems. The GOP is all about religious freedom if your religious choice is Christian other wise, in the words of Dick Cheney, go fuck yourself.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    The only thing worse than America's conservatives are America's Christians.

    When will they understand that they're doing it wrong?

    It seems they are only conservative when it's self-serving. That, and they seem to have some kind of mental disorder that suspends their idea of logic:

    • Tax cuts and subsidies please, but no money for the poor!
    • We have inalienable rights, such as the right to bear arms, but don't let those gays marry!
    • The government should keep its nose out of business, but it should ban abortion!
    • More tax dollars for military spending, but Obamacare is a tax increase we cannot afford!

    I find it hard to believe that mainstream conservatives think this way. I think this is mainly the result of a dysfunctional Republican party and the rich and powerful few hijacking politics.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    I could come up with a GOP plan for healthcare reform, but I won't give them the answer.

    It would insure or treat everyone though, and I'm not sure they would go for that.
     
  12. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Despite the best efforts of the Republicans in Congress and conservative "family values" organizations, starting tomorrow (or the next plan renewal date), group health plans must provide eight additional preventive services to women (in addition to those preventive services already covered - mammograms, pap smears, pre-natal...), at no cost (no co-pay).

    Additional women’s preventive services that will be covered without cost sharing requirements include:
    • Well-woman visits: This would include an annual well-woman preventive care visit for adult women to obtain the recommended preventive services, and additional visits if women and their providers determine they are necessary. These visits will help women and their doctors determine what preventive services are appropriate, and set up a plan to help women get the care they need to be healthy.
    • Gestational diabetes screening: This screening is for women 24 to 28 weeks pregnant, and those at high risk of developing gestational diabetes. It will help improve the health of mothers and babies because women who have gestational diabetes have an increased risk of developing type 2 diabetes in the future. In addition, the children of women with gestational diabetes are at significantly increased risk of being overweight and insulin-resistant throughout childhood.
    • HPV DNA testing: Women who are 30 or older will have access to high-risk human papillomavirus (HPV) DNA testing every three years, regardless of pap smear results. Early screening, detection, and treatment have been shown to help reduce the prevalence of cervical cancer.
    • STI counseling, and HIV screening and counseling: Sexually-active women will have access to annual counseling on HIV and sexually transmitted infections (STIs). These sessions have been shown to reduce risky behavior in patients, yet only 28% of women aged 18 to 44 years reported that they had discussed STIs with a doctor or nurse. In addition, women are at increased risk of contracting HIV/AIDS. From 1999 to 2003, the CDC reported a 15% increase in AIDS cases among women, and a 1% increase among men.
    • Contraception and contraceptive counseling: Women will have access to all Food and Drug Administration-approved contraceptive methods, sterilization procedures, and patient education and counseling. These recommendations do not include abortifacient drugs. Most workers in employer-sponsored plans are currently covered for contraceptives. Family planning services are an essential preventive service for women and critical to appropriately spacing and ensuring intended pregnancies, which results in improved maternal health and better birth outcomes.
    • Breastfeeding support, supplies, and counseling: Pregnant and postpartum women will have access to comprehensive lactation support and counseling from trained providers, as well as breastfeeding equipment. Breastfeeding is one of the most effective preventive measures mothers can take to protect their children’s and their own health. One of the barriers for breastfeeding is the cost of purchasing or renting breast pumps and nursing related supplies.
    • Domestic violence screening: Screening and counseling for interpersonal and domestic violence should be provided for all women. An estimated 25% of women in the U.S. report being targets of intimate partner violence during their lifetimes. Screening is effective in the early detection and effectiveness of interventions to increase the safety of abused women.

    At least, until the courts are required to intervene again at the behest of conservative groups and the catholic church
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    Ah, so that sound I heard was Rick Santorium throwing up.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Common sense? Obamacare does not address the need for primary care doctors, and other healthcare system shortages. This problem is going to get materially worse in terms of average people getting access to services. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    The issue goes deeper than simply "Obamacare":

    Success of health reform hinges on hiring 30,000 primary care doctors by 2015 - The Washington Post
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    The failure is in a failure to address the issue in a "fix" of the healthcare system. The "tail" in this instance is about 10 years, meaning what we do today won't have a measurable impact until about 10 years. And so it will go. Common sense would tell anyone this is an area of importance. It is ironic that some of the provisions in Obamacare will make it less compelling for general practice doctors to go this route.

    My view is clear, Obamacare is a mess.
     
  17. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    The aspect I brought up has to do with limitations in a law passed by a Republican-majority Congress sixteen years ago. This means the issue extends beyond "Obamacare," and perhaps needs to be addressed though future amendments or something. I'm not sure how American law works with regard to things like "Obamacare."

    "Obamacare" may be a mess, but cleaning it up is an option, is it not?
     
  18. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    The aspect I brought up is that anyone with common sense would have fixed it!
     
  19. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I wouldnt characterize it as a mess, but as a base for addressing the issue of health care access and costs. Certainly a firmer and broader base than existed previously and supporters knew would require tweaking.. You have to have something in place before you can improve upon it and there has been nothing in place in terms of comprehensive health reform in nearly 100 years.

    On the issue of the shortags of doctors, I would like to see a greater focus on Nurse Practitioners (NP). NPs can do much (not all) of the job of primary care physicians -- physical exams, ordering and interpreting diagnostic tests, providing appropriate treatment including prescribing medications, etc -- rather than just screaming "see, Obamacare sucks."

    Tell that to the millions of seniors who have already seen significant cuts in the cost of their prescriptions or those families with children with pre-existing conditions or facing bankruptcy as a result of annual or lifetime limits in their coverage...or the numerous other benefits in the reform.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  20. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I agree with the RN issue. This is a de-regulation question, isn't it? There are many common sense regulatory issues that can be addresses to imporve healthcare delivery, with or without Obamacare. I am not anti-regulation, I support effective regulation.

    I do much more than simply say Obamacare is a mess, as my many posts on the subject illustrate. I give support of my views.