Politics Obamacare

obamacare would be bad even if it was perfectly executed as the law is written, but they aren't even competent enough to pull that off. they still can't even get the website working correctly which should of been the easiest part for how many tens or hundred of millions they spent on it. what makes you think they could possibly execute a single payer system correctly?

we are still faced with the reality that more people are going to be without insurance than had it prior to obamacare.

 

Well fuck, if Canada can do it, how hard can it be?

 

Oh really? I would love to see the data for this reality.

 

Yeah, it's hard. We'd have to get the U.S. Congress to vote to put all of the health insurance companies out of business.

 

Even in our current system or with the ACA, not all consumers will have access to these ancillary services at affordable rates. Which is why I am currently putting together a program of discount medical services to cover dental, vision, hearing, alternative medicine, etc...no insurance companies involved.

But, shades of Obamacare, the website is not working yet and the pilot program in four cities is scheduled to begin on Jan. 1.

 

Yes it is, apparently.

 

Everyone is allowed to opt out of Obamacare except the middle class who are going to foot the bill for the whole thing.​

Some Reid staffers exempt from Obamacare exchanges

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Sam....I would add this fallacy along with your claim that more Americans will be uninsured after the ACA is implemented to the "greatest hits" below.

 

humanitarian crisis: i would say this is the path we are on. 100's of millions possibly losing insurance when it's all said and done after being told 'we can keep our insurance if we like it. then when you do go through the exchanges your are faced typically with tripled premiums and deductibles even for garbage bronze plans.

young and healthy: i feel like it is oppressing the young and healthy for sure. if you DON'T have an employer based plan then you are definitely getting screwed like myself. likewise, all these employer policies are going to get dropped with that mandate hits just like when the personal mandate hits. then all these young people

maternity care: this has more to do with the breakdown of society and the lack of having a normal family with a husband and wife than anything. more of an excuse to just whore around. society pays for abortions, or birth control, or the maternity care and welfare because she likely doesn't have a husband to help support the kid. if she does have the child out of wedlock, there is zero input from the man, but he gets roped along for 18 years for child support. not a fair system in the slightest. why a 55 year old, or anyone, should have to pay so 20 somethings can have all the irresponsible sex they want is beyond me.

insurance bailout: i dunno about that, but in the only regards that i see it as a bailout is everyone is forced to have insurance. so in a sense it forces a monopolistic capitalist system upon the american people. on one hand it sounds like a bailout because everyone HAS to have insurance and almost everyone's premiums are going up, but it also seems like they won't hit their sign up quotas to due to the horrible launch and sky high prices. in a sense, there will be way more takers in this obamacare system than people putting money in even though it's now mandatory.

obama take over: i dont even know what to say about this. they admit it is about 1/6 of the economy. obviously, this bill has changed healthcare as we know it the most significant way in my lifetime (30 years). it's a pretty big deal....



liberals like to defend this by pointing out all the great things it will bring. the problem is that it's not happening yet. the fact that obama said dozens of times 'if you like your insurance you can keep it' was a complete and total lie. it gives me no reason to believe this other crap they keep telling me about how great it is. there's NO reason to believe. you can say all day long this is how great it will be, but they are chronic liars.

i still think it is highly probable that more people will be uninsured after obamacare. there's no reason to think otherwise when you compare the cancellations to the sign ups.

 

Nice! Nothing like ignoring the facts about the saving already accrued by millions, the first ever consumer protections already in place for all and more (presented numerous times) with a baseless ideological rant!

Most of which is probably best to ignore. But the "whoring around" is pretty offensive, given that both teen pregnancies and out-of-wedlock births have been on the decline for the last 10-20 years. And beyond offensive, it is just more of the conservative hypocrisy when it comes to the "sanctity of life" by opposing access to affordable birth control to prevent unwanted pregnancies and opposing affordable prenatal care and pregnancy which is as much for the child in the womb as the mother.

 

saving by millions.... have a million(s) people even signed up?

 

I think I've posted the data at least twice now.

6 million seniors have already saved (in 2011 and 2012) more than $7 billion (average of over $1,000 per person) on prescriptions by closing the Medicare donut hole.

2-3 million in both group plans and individual plans have already received more than $2 billion in premium rebates (in2011 and 2012) as a result of the new medical loss ratios requiring insurance companies to spend 80-85% of premiums on patient care and not administrative costs.

2 million+ young adults have been already to remain on parents plan (started in 2011)

I could go on and repeated the other benefits accrued like covering children with per-exising to conditions that started in 2011 or the new consumer protections (including new out-of-pocket limits) that will be applied to all plans, group and individual, starting next month.
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I could repost the surveys of Fortune 500 companies and the surveys of benefit managers of companies of all sizes finding that the vast majority have no intention of dropping their employees plan....for numerous reasons, 1) benefits attract and retain employees, 2) employees are healthier and more productive......
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And I could debunk (again) the myth of the exaggerated number of individuals who have (or will have) their insurance dropped this year.....about 5% of the population with more than half that will be eligible for subsidies resulting in plans at lower costs with greater benefits.
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One last thought on the "whoring around".... I will concede that 40% of births being out-of-wedlock is high, although flattening out or declining in recent years, but the majority are in cohabiting committed relationships.

You may believe that such relationships are immoral, but do you really believe that these women are "whoring around"?

 

well, i will concede i can't possibly know as much about this as someone who lives/maybe works in washington. so your stats sound ok i suppose since i don't have anything atm or the time to find sources to refute them.

i do subscribe to the 'whoring around' though, because at every avenue in a woman's reproductive life she can count on a man or society to support her(or soon to be under obamacare). birth control, abortion, welfare for the children, all the while the man has no say. she can also decide to keep the child and drag a man through 18 years of payments. that doesn't sound fair at all when it takes two to make a child. i don't subscribe to this system and don't feel like me or other people should have to pay to support it either. where is the man represented at all in this relationship of making babies other than welfare whether he fathered a child or not?

i don't get free money if i knock a woman up, why should she get free money? i guess because she provides the womb and has the child regardless of the male. that doesn't take anything away from her bad decisions.

i mean, i get dead beat dads, but that's not me or many men. why should a woman have free reign on tax payer money to do whatever she wants to sexually? how is that 'liberating', it's disgusting. men don't have that same free reign, not that i think it would be fair or right if they did.

these are the things the social welfare system and obamacare are pushing on us.

 

Anyone can find the data.

I posted the state-by-state savings on Medicare prescription drugs in 2011-2012 in a previous post.

As well as the premium rebates in 2011 and 2012

In 2011 (checks went out in 2012), 12 million people (or employers) received $1.1 billion in rebates (see table at bottom)

In 2012 (checks went out in 2013), 8 million people (or employers) received $504 million

And once again, I will remind you that the individual mandate was originally a conservative/libertarian response to HillaryCare in the early 90s based on the concept of individual responsibility (in response to the growing cost of uncompensated care provided by hospitals to people w/o insurance...which now costs taxpayers nearly $50 billion/yr) and resurfaced again with Republican support in the early Bush years...only to be vilified when Obama put his name to it.

We have different views on morality, a social safety net and a social contract. I'll just leave it at that.
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One more tidbit you can feel free to refute.

17 million people utilized the free (no co-pay) preventive care provided under the ACA in the first six months of 2012. Preventive care means potential savings down the road by catching serious (and costly) diseases that can be treated before they progress too far.

 

On the issue of "whoring around"

Common sense policies like comprehensive sex education, access to contraception and family planning programs work.

Religious based policies like abstinence only education, making contraception more expensive/less accessible and defunding Title X programs do not.

 

HumanProgress.org