Politics Obamacare

It certainly has to be better than the ACA which will kill grandma with its death panels, implant a microchip in all Americans, force doctors to ask about your sexual history, provide abortion on demand for any female of any age and in any stage of pregnancy, and all kinds of other scary shit!

 

so.... we are now allowed to keep our illegal junk plans for another year if the insurance companies, who spent three years preparing for obamacare regulations, will allow us to go back to our old plan. am i understanding this right? then in a year we are right back with everyone being miserable with the cancelled plans and exchanges again....

 

Yep, assuming either an Obama executive order or a bill both parties can support is enacted (not the House bill that passed today).

So 5% of the population can continue with no patient protections for a year (and half of those can choose to keep their plan instead of getting a subsidy for a better plan) while the other 95% of the population may benefit (some more that others) from the many ACA provisions that have been enacted (or will be in the coming months).

 

ok, i think i have figured out my health plan and how it can work for me (this is currently how i understand the law which could be wrong). since i am healthy i wont sign up for insurance. they will fine me, but can't collect because the only way to collect the fine is through an irs income tax return. i will set up my taxes so i have zero returning. years down the road if i get a catastrophic condition, like cancer or something, i will sign up for a premium plan under the exchange. they won't be able to deny me due to my pre-existing condition of cancer now. once i find i have cancer, i will stop drawing a wage so my income level will fall to poverty level which will allow my premium plan to be heavily subsidized by the tax payers.

game set match? lol

 

You can probably find a way around the $95 fine, or maybe the IRS will red flag you for audits for the next five years.

Or maybe next spring, you're playing softball and slide into third and break your leg, compound fracture. You cant sign up for insurance on the Exchange until the next open enrollment period in Oct.....cha ching, a bill of $couple thousand. Or you dont break your leg, you get hit in the head with a fastball high and inside and esperience dizziness for days....cha ching...a $bill of $couple thousand for a CAT scan or MRI.

The last comment about those in poverty is condescending and typical of many libertarian types, and not worth a response.

 

$3k+ in premiums per year plus the $5000 in deductibles would save me enough money to get by till the next exchange opens easily. plus the years i go by without ever going to the doctor is just going to put tens of thousands in my pocket. i could go into my pocket easily if i had to with this savings. also i'd be paying cash which i understand can get you significantly cheaper prices on medical rather than using insurance.

i mean, if i break my leg, i'm already into it for $5k already whether i have insurance or not. am i wrong?

 

Your scenario was "since I healthy I wont sign up for insurance" in which case you're on your own. How about an unexpected surgery? You're talking $five figures to start (and I dont wish that on you) and I would bet it all wont be covered in your $100/month plan. Physical therapy after surgery? Definitely wont be covered.

The point is that you never know when you might experience a serious accident or illness, far more serious than I suggested and to make light of it by suggesting you will "game the system" is just another example of the dismissive attitude of many on the right to the whole concept of patient protection and an assurance that an accident/illness will not result in financial hardship (or bankruptcy).

 

well i guess i can just play lottery, stack up the bills and go bankrupt. if i had a $100,000 surgery, what is my co-pay likely to be?
--- merged: Nov 15, 2013 at 4:56 PM ---

sorry, i was referring to the alternative of not having my obama care insurance which is 3k premium and 5.5k deductible. my point was i wouldn't pay for insurance thus saving money to spend on small end medical bills like you suggested. and even if i did pay for insurance i would still be out of pocket for 5k which is no small sum of money...

 

With the average cost of a broken leg in the USA being somewhere between 17K and 35k, sure all you have to do is come up with another 12-30k and you're all good.

Cost of a Broken Leg - Consumer Information and Prices Paid - CostHelper.com
--- merged: Nov 15, 2013 at 5:10 PM ---

I just got my answer from the State of Oregon exchange. The plan I want, and it turns out I qualify for (was my main question since I've been living in Mexico, not a problem since I file a tax return.) 50 year old male, non smoker (only health question, thought there was going to be none) with a pre-existing condition- silver plan, end cost after everything I qualify for... 188 a month. I will purchase this as soon as I'm allowed. This will allow me to spend more time near my mother in the coming years without the fear of getting hit by a bus or whatever. I kind of had an entire year of "whatevers."

 

You left out bankrupt every "real American" family and small business in the country, thus ending the American way of life forever. Other then those I think you hit all the scare tactic being thrown at the ACA.

I do wonder if it will survive. Between the insurance companies, the GOP and right wing media doing all they can to sabotage it. Plus the seriously screwed up roll out. It may not make it. I hope it does because the system before the ACA sucked majorly. Sure it was fine as long as you were healthy for the most part. But the countless number of folks who were denied coverage and tossed off plans when they actual needed health care and needed their insurance to cover the cost was obscene. John Stossel did a report once documenting people getting cancer and other serious illnesses only to have their insurance toss them rather then pony up for the care they needed over silly stuff like "didn't report a spider bite on the enrollment forms"... a bite that occurred in Jr. high. So "no coverage for you 43 yr old man with ALS."

 

I did forget Ron Paul's fear mongering about some imaginary IRS "armed thugs" (or "health care Gestapo" as characterized by Maine gov. Paul LePage)

"...Just think about it. 16,500 armed bureaucrats coming to make this program work. If it’s a good program and everybody liked it, you wouldn’t need 16,500 thugs coming with their guns and putting you in jail if you didn’t follow all the rules.”​

--- merged: Nov 16, 2013 at 8:29 AM ---

The "study" you cited about small businesses and franchises was fact checked back in July and is just resurfacing again.

 

This. If the ACA is so bad why do people need to make shit up rather then simply state (insert factual statement here)and that's why it sucks? No, you have Sean "don't criticize the POTUS out of respect for the office unless he's black" Hannity bringing on a group of folks who basically made shit up to make their situations sound bad.

 

Jon Stewart summed it up:

 

Yeah I PVR The Daily Show and Colbert so I've seen this. I kind of caught some of Bill Maher last night, some guest on there basically said "Well yes we're politicizing this but that's what you do in politics." So actually trying to benefit people isn't even really part of it.

 

The GOP hacked the ACA website and it's beyond prepare. Years from now, it will be reveled like all major fuck ups in government.

 

The GOP has sabotaged and obstructed anything and everything Obama has tried to do, sole purpose is to regain power. Fuck it if it hurts people. Look at the Benghazi incident. A consul out post in a middle eastern country gets attacked under Obama watch and the world is ending. The countless US diplomatic properties attacked while Bush Jr was playing president? Well, shit happens you know.

 

The biggest problem with Obamacare is that it attempts to respond to the wrong questions. There are two ways to address affordable healthcare for all. One is to have a single payer - meaning a single pool - a single pool where all costs are shared. Or, honestly address costs - for example, what should the delivery of a healthy baby from a healthy mother cost? How do we reduce the cost? If it is more costly than it should be why? Should a normal delivery cost $4,000? Can we get the cost down to less than $1,000 - if we took this type of market based approach we can make healthcare and health insurance affordable. In competitive business, every day there is a focus on reducing costs and being more efficient - and it works. People against Obamacare are against it for legitimate reasons. The hybrid attempted at a solution has resulted in a mess that can not possible succeed. We need to go firmly in one direction for a solution or the other.

 

Ace, let's put the single payer aside (for now) because there is not the will among the Congress or the American people. You are using it as a cop-out.

And focus on how the ACA improves the health care delivery system that has existed for 50+ years.,

There are two issues that the ACA addresses....patient protection and affordable healthcare.

Without question, it provides more patient protection than currently exists...in the form of numerous provisions that requires greater transparency by insurers, greater protections against having policies cancelled, greater protections against facing financial hardship as a result of a serious accident or illness, and more.

Which of these provisions dont you like?

In terms of affordability, something like 75% of health care costs are related to chronic conditions....diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc. The first way to lower these costs is to incentivize prevention...to prevent these conditions before they occur and the ACA has numerous provisions focusing on prevention, including free (no co-pay) preventive care, incentives for employers to offer wellness programs, etc.

Which of these provisions dont you like?

And affordability is also a function of improving the delivery system, including such issue as moving to accountable care organizations and the greater technology applications and I've noted in past posts how the ACA addressees both.

Which of these provisions dont you like?

It is easy to say "single payer" when it is not gonna happen and it is easy to say "free market" (and as a result less patient protection) or greater competition and not acknowledge that the Exchanges are the Republic idea of greater competition.