Politics Obamacare

Oh, it is throwing the baby out with the bathwater, without doubt.

The ACA includes provisions (and funding) to reduce Medicare fraud:

And just as it begins to work, Republican-led sequestration resulted in budget cuts that have adversely impacted efforts to reduce fraud.

 

Here is an article on how the ACA is already addressing the "affordable" issue:

 

How many people are enrolled to date?

There are no "poorhouses", one emergency room visit is not the same as an extended stay in a hospital with major medical expenses. And even if an individual has medical bills that they can not possibly pay, bankruptcy is an option. Under current bankruptcy laws most people will come out of bankruptcy with assets. The bullshit hyperbole is tiresome. And NO, I am not keeping my current doctor or health plan - thanks Obamacare! and NO, I am not saving $2,500 per year - thanks Obamacare. The President lied to get the bill passed and to get re-elected - he knew it was a lie.

 

The irony is that those most opposed to the ACA have taken the attention away from the glitches in the roll out with their shut down strategy.

 

And you find some form of comfort in this? If true, why?

 

Nope. Just another laugh at the ineptitude of the Cruz crowd.

But unlike you, I believe in giving the law a chance before dismissing it based on lies/misrepresentations and fear mongering.

 

I gave it a chance until I found out my premium tripled and my deductible went up almost five times higher. How many have actually signed up? People like me who are supposed to be paying the costs aren't signing up.

 

Thanks for paying the tax ('fine') then and not get anything in return.

And unless the amount the insurance companies have to pay out went up by that much, you would get a refund of the extra premium amount that are being collected.

 

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Without knowing the details of your current $100/month plan, I would bet it is one variation or another of a "junk" plan with numerous restrictions, exclusions, $ limitations on coverage, etc. all in fine print.

Does it limit the total $ amount for prescriptions for the year? or lab tests? or diagnostics (MRIs)? Does it limit the number of days of hospitalization? Does it have a list of loosely defined pre-existing conditions so that they can deny coverage for any range of illnesses? Does it limit your annual out-of-pocket expenses? These type plans are generally bared-boned and might be fine until you get a serious illness or have a serious accident.

As opposed to the lowest "bronze" level plan ($250-300/month) which are far more robust with requirements for numerous essential coverages. Most important, it has an annual limit on your out-of-pocket expenses of $6,350.

You get what you pay for and speaking only for myself, I would certainly not expose myself to the financial risk associated with a $100/month insurance plan. But you my be more willing to gamble . Good luck and stay healthy!

 

As to people signing up, there is no data yet for Indiana since it is in the federal exchange, and yes, there have been serious issues with the federal website. But its far too soon to say that people arent signing up. In neighboring Kentucky, where the state runs the exchange, people are signing up at a rate of 1,000/week. Other states running their own exchange are reporting similar sign-ups (Cali - 25,000, NY - 40,000+ ...in just two weeks.)
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As I understand it, he is not insured through an employer but has purchased an individual plan in the past through an independent broker (i.e. a salesman working on commission) and Indiana historically has been one of the worst states for consumer protections with regard to cheap, so-called insurance plans. You cant get comprehensive health insurance for $100/month.
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If you dont pay the fine (tax), don't worry, you wont go to prison or have your house taken by the IRS despite Ace's baseless comparison to tax cheats like Wesley Snipes.

(1) In general.--The penalty provided by this section​

shall be paid upon notice and demand by the Secretary, and​

except as provided in paragraph (2), shall be assessed and​

collected in the same manner as an assessable penalty under​

subchapter B of chapter 68.​

``(2) Special rules.--Notwithstanding any other provision of​

law--​

``(A) Waiver of criminal penalties.--In the case of​

any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty​

imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be​

subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with​

respect to such failure.​

``(B) Limitations on liens and levies.--The​

Secretary shall not--​

``(i) file notice of lien with respect to any​

property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to​

pay the penalty imposed by this section, or​

``(ii) levy on any such property with respect​

to such failure.''.​

 

You claim that I lie and misrepresent Obamacare? Wow. I stated from the beginning that the law is a mess, it is in fact a mess. It is a train wreck in process. So, it is true I do not want to give a train wreck a chance! Even Obama has made material unilateral changes to the law bypassing the legislative process.
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F, choice. If you want an apple, F that, have an orange. And if you F'ing complain...you are comparing apples and oranges...you lie and misrepresent. WTF is happening in this country.
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Let's think about this. Premium triples vs. $150 rebate - I know what I would prefer - the insurance company can keep the $150 and I will keep my previous premium!
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People who do not pay taxes risk going to jail. I never said it happens in all cases, I just illustrate something that you won't acknowledge - there are consequences to not buying insurance or paying the fine. What are those potential consequences - share truth with us! What you cite is in conflict with other laws, rules and regulations. The Supreme Court ruled the "penalty" is a tax! If you believe a person can simply not pay the tax, I don't know what to tell you, other than not to risk it. Tax avoidance is subject to criminal prosecution. The law is a mess, poorly drafted. The law lack clarity. The law is confusing. As it stands it will be decades before there is real clarity on many of these issues. Your presentation on the penalty/tax question is superficial.

 

Ace, 0nce again you are demonstrating that you dont know how laws work. Newer laws amend existing laws and US Code.

The section of the ACA regarding the fine (tax) AMENDS existing US Code (Tax Code) Chap 68, Subchapter B and provides a WAIVER of Criminal Penalty.

There is no confusion here. There is no conflict with previous tax law. It updates and supersedes previous laws. Persons who dont pay the fine are not subject to criminal prosecution.

Throughout the discussion I have tried, for the most part, to support my posts with my understanding of the law and not an emotional reaction to the law.

I will let others here decide who is more credible.
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Just as there is no confusion about the Independent Payment Advisory Board established under the ACA among those who understand the law as opposed to demagogues with a political agenda.

It is not a death panel. It does not ration care or chose one patient's needs over another. It simply will look for ways of achieving savings in Medicare WITHOUT affecting coverage or quality of care.

 

Is it a matter of principle for you then? I don't know what changes you're referring to but, if he had fed them through the proper channels, would you be more favorable to ACA? Something tells me you wouldn't.

As far as it being a "mess," would you have preferred things stayed the way they were? Preferred the rising costs of medical care and insurance premiums with no end in sight? Preferred to watch more and more Americans priced out of affordable health insurance either going without health care or seeking it great cost to the insured? Or is none of that of concern to you as long as your situation is exactly the way you want it?

Can you see no benefit to putting forth a plan to address these problems and working out the bugs over a period of time? Seeing where it fails to operate as expected and making corrections as necessary? Why the overwhelming need to destroy it before anyone has a chance to see if makes a difference?

I can find no logic in the conservative and Republican desire to kill it before it's even standing up except the logic that leads me to believe it's motivated entirely by politics.

 

The Supreme Court ruled that the provision in the ACA is not a mandate to buy insurance but is a tax for not having bought insurance. It is just another thing that the government taxes. The ruling sets up how the law is to be interpreted - how it should be interpreted - how the rules and regulations are to be applied. It is a tax. If there is argument that it is not a tax and not subject to tax law, perhaps some will make that argument. As it stands, I would not suggest anyone risk it, because the risk could result in jail time. It is a risk. If your position is that the risk is zero, clearly say it and explain why.

Is the proper interpretation is that there is no consequence for non-payment of the tax? What is the consequence in your view? Be clear.

Some of this is above your pay grade, I get that. What I question and point out is not emotion based.

I am not in this as a popularity contest. My questions are clear and direct. What are the consequences of not paying the fine/tax? In my view, failure to pay a tax puts a person at risk to be criminally prosecuted and to face jail time.

Also, what is the consequence of misrepresenting income and getting a subsidy one would not ordinarily qualify for, an issue on the table today with the CR and debt limit, increase? Are you going to tell people there is no consequence for that as well? Or, are we just telling people today that everything is roses, no risks, no problems, and then at a future date the hammer gets dropped? You know how it goes, let's get people hooked first.

 

Obamacare does not address core problems with healthcare availability and costs. It is a hybrid system that creates more problems than it solves, in principle all it does is shift costs. I prefer real solutions. I have made it clear that we should go in the direction of single payer or free market. My suggestion would be to first provide unconditional healthcare to all children under 18, regardless of income, state, parents, etc. If they have an issue it is covered. then at 18, they have guaranteed insurability, with premiums based on their age category - not based on a system that subsidizes older people. People like me, over 50, we should pay based on our insurance costs, in a competitive system that is national, not state based and owned and controlled by an individual - not an employer, with an emphasis on health savings accounts.

No.

The law was sold to us based on lies. That is unacceptable. If the truth was known the law would have been repealed by now.


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During the first week I spent several hours trying to get through - I now have an account set up (that I can not log into) and I will try again in a week or two - hopefully after they fix the bottle necks. They have had several years to get the system working, there is no excuse for this. And to get a quote, should be the simplest thing to do - Geico can do it in 15 minutes.

 

I agree the Obama administration screwed up with the requirement to register first.

But you can get basic premium information for plans available to you at any level (bronze, silver, gold) if you are in a state where residents apply through the federal exchange.

I didt a quick run through in Indiana and found premium information on 19 different plans. It took two minutes.
Get health care premium estimates & preview Marketplace plans

You can do it here: Get health care premium estimates & preview Marketplace plans

And you can find the details on the coverage and co-pays for each level plan w/o enrolling as well.