Politics Obama - Actually doing a good job?

I think Obama could and should be doing much more on this issue. It would be a good thing to work on if he gets another do-nothing Congress over the next two years. And there is a lot of work that need to be done improving the urban areas in this country, and there are some things that don't require very much money to implement.

 

Did I offend you? We don't have to point to Nazis for examples of pragmatism being used as a tactic for those with extreme agendas either liberal or conservative.

I wanted to be clear that I never wanted to discuss fanatics - I believe there are many with extreme views on specific issues who are pragmatic.
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I am so tired of this line. The President needs to build a coalition to get things done. Key word is build. It is his job. "Do nothing Congress" is an excuse for ineffective leadership. Obama needs to stop offending those he needs to work with as a start.

 

I'm sorry, you can't work with people who are intentionally recalcitrant.
There is belief that doing anything will make him look good and that is unacceptable.
They would prefer that the government fall over the edge then even appear for moment next to the President.
How do you forge a working relationship with people like that?

I'd argue that he spent too long trying to get them to work with him and that's why the first part of his office he seemed to be dithering.
If he'd just realized they weren't going to cooperate, ever, no matter what he tried, I think we might have seen earlier results.

 

Politics is all about compromise and consensus building and the Republican Party has been taken over by the intransigent Tea Party types , and to a lesser extent, the religious fundamentalists, both extremely narcissistic and self-righteous with a deeply held belief that compromise and consensus building for the greater good in times of a divided country is a sign of weakness and would undermine their Constitutional (based on channeling the Founding Fathers) or God given (based on literal interpretation of the Bible) responsibility to the nation and the world.

 

I am not into optics when it comes to leadership. I expect leaders to do what needs to be done without a focus on how "it" looks. Perhaps that is the Presidents problem - he is looking for some form of validation from all sides on every issue. Occasionally ( always in my view) the President needs to do what he believes is the right thing to do. F, the polls. F, the people who won't get your support regardless of what you do! If he had that type of an attitude, I would actually like him. Stop crying like a baby...Oh, it hard...Oh, Republicans don't like me...Oh, Rush Limbaugh make jokes about me...Oh, Fox News is biased...Democrats in red states won't invite me to their state...etc...etc...grow up Mr. President! Do you not realize you are the President?
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Yes, and the President's agenda is paying the price. He needs them, it is not the other way around. Winning Friends and Influencing People - Principle #1

Don't Criticize, Condemn or Complain.

Perhaps, someone can send him a copy of the principles.
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So today the Tea Party is in control of the Republican Party? A few months ago when Tea Party candidates lost in many primaries they were finished. It is hard to keep up with the changing tide of Tea Party influence. Perhaps you can make a post whenever their is a change - because I am sure a ffew believe that if not for a few Tea Party people in Congress Obama would be the greatest President of all time. I certainly don't.

...and let's not forget the couple who live down the street from me, they have a bumper sticker on their car that says "Nobama". OMG! If not for people like that...people who actually disagree on policy based on principle and have the nerve to use their right of free speech.

 

It may be funny, but in my view it is serious. For example if you support and want to persuade me to support a minimum wage increase - given that I am indifferent on the matter (meaning it will be inflationary, and of no net macro-benefit to the economy.) You have interacted with me - how would you attempt to influence my view?

I can tell you what won't work is calling me - a do nothing person - with illogical views that are not based on any thought. And on the most basic level what would work, is to honestly acknowledge the the pro and con arguments and principle #8

Talk in terms of the other person's interest.

Not to mention (hint, hint ) #11

Show respect for the other person's opinion.

To those who are curious, here is a link -

Dale Carnegie's 30 Principles For How To Win Friends And Influence People - Principle #14

 

It was Cruz and the House Tea Party types that shut down the government. It is Cruz, Mike Lee and Paul Rand putting most of the "holds" on proposed bills from reaching the floor of the Senate. It is the Tea Party types in the House who scared Boehner away from any compromise; immigration reform and tax reform are the best example.

Yes, they have control beyond their numbers through unprecedented parliamentary maneuvering in the Senate and threats of overthrowing their party leader in the House.

 

When I am trying to win friends and influence people, I tend to follow Carnegie's approach. In Presidential politics the opposing party is in a position to obstruct, it takes proactive action on the part of the President to move his agenda - short of having a super majority he has to build a coalition.

There is a big difference, so the cliche does not apply.
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No. Cruz is virtually powerless in the Senate. His attempt at an actual filibuster was political theater, a waste of time, a joke. The House Tea Party needed GOP establishment leadership to support the shut down - the GOP leadership acted based on their own choice - most of them, except for Cantor, are in safe districts with minimal threat from Tea Party candidates.

It would be wise to take some time to understand the Tea Party - most of the people running under the Tea Party banner have an agenda outside of true Tea Party principles. These candidates tend to be amateurish. Many simply tried to ride the wave of the grass roots popularity of the movement. Your commentary on the Tea Party is often off point.

 

I'm sorry it's not a matter of 'nice' or even reasonable.
Politics has never been a game for the faint of heart or even the half sane.
You often go in with the best of intentions and find yourself making compromises that you never really intended because you need to get shit done.

The problem is right now the system is broken.
After the the stealth run on state legislators that made sure Congress had guaranteed districts that were the only thing they had to worry about was being primaried by even more right wing challengers we now have a broken government.
They work less than any Congress in the past, they say crazy things and don't expect to be held accountable.
The reasonable ones are afraid to work with the President for fear of being turfed out.

 

Cruz, Rand, Lee are the leaders in placing "holds" and leading filibusters. McConnell has no control over these guys. And certainly Boehner is safe from a challenge in his district. He is not safe from a challenge as Speaker and has consistently caved to the Tea Party types in the House rather than allow votes that would have resulted in bi-partisan bills (Immigration reform, tax reform, ...)

And I understand the Tea Party. They have little interest in compromise and consensus building.

From a NBC-WSJ poll this week:
Would you rather have a candidate who will compromise, or who will stick to his/her positions?
Democrats - 62% compromise/32 stick to positions
Republicans (all) - 37%/54%
Self-described Tea Party supporters - 32%/60%

This is not about Obama's willingness to compromise, He has put numerous proposals on the table and has offered numerous concessions. Yet it is generally "all or nothing" for the most extreme members of today's Republican Party.

 

Who would expect the opposing party to play nice? You have to give the opposing party a reason to cooperate. Since when do we expect politicians to sit around a camp fire holding hands singing Kumbaya?

How does this work in Obama-world? A politician wakes up in the morning with the attitude that he/she is going to work their a$$ off for a legislative agenda they don't support???? In the real world you have to give people a reason to do what they would not ordinarily do.
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I disagree. The system is not broken. The system is working exactly the way it was designed to work. I think Obama's agenda is bad for America. I want the officials that I voted for to block the Obama agenda. When Republican gain control of the Senate, along with control of the House I expect them to move a conservative agenda to the President. I expect moderate Democrats will go along with the conservative agenda, creating a veto proof coalition. Soon we will see how things are supposed to work in DC.
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Nothing is getting done in the Senate due to Reid. He controls the Senate agenda. In addition Democrats can make some rule changes to make moving some things easier if they wanted. Cruz, Paul, Lee - have virtually no power - I am not sure I understand how you think they do.

Not safe? O.k., I a agree there is some risk - in terms of probability I would say the probability of his continued speaker-ship is 99% in the next two years. What do you think the probability is - just so we have some perspective on the level of our disagreement on this point?

Depends on the issue. The founding principle of the Tea Party is Taxed Enough Already. Don't expect compromise on this principle.

Poll questions of this type are pointless. People interpret the question differently.

Here is one way to test the poll result. If Democrats want to compromise, they can compromise on the important things they want and give the Tea Party the important things it wants - and things will get done! Compromise and we are done!

My point is that Obama can and should build a coalition. For example I don't think he has to compromise to get a minimum wage increase passed. I think he simply has to build a coalition of Democrats and Republicans sympathetic to the fundamental reasons why he wants an increase. Or, if he want to put something on the table, make an offer to offset the impact the wage increase will have on small business' who will be at risk given a dramatic increase in the cost of low skilled workers. All Obama has does is go to the media and complain about it. And we know why - he needs the issue to help motivate some to get out the vote - make Republican look like they are anti-working poor - more value in that than in actually doing the work to get the minimum wage increased.

He has put numerous proposals on the table and has offered numerous concessions. Yet it is generally "all or nothing" for the most extreme members of today's Republican Party.[/quote]

 

If things are getting done and the economy is on the rise, fuck convictions.