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Politics Obama - Actually doing a good job?

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    If I could generalize, I would say the same about Republicans.

    They are better at whining, complaining, criticizing, demagoguing, and for the last five years, obstructing at levels unseen in the past, than they are at governing or participating in bi-partisan consensus building, particularly in a divided country.
     
  2. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Let me make sure I understand your point so that I can specifically respond to it. I was not made aware of this or that until it was reported in the media. Since this matter may or may not be subject to investigation or litigation it is inappropriate for me to directly respond, other than to say I am appalled and find it or that unacceptable. Other than that or this I do have a response, it would be the greatest response in the history of responses if I were not precluded from giving a response to this issue of great concern or that issue of great concern. :p

    Do I qualify to be President or the President's press Secretary?
     
  3. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    You qualify for your own right wing podcast where you can spread your ideology w/o the necessity of supporting it with facts....much like Uncle Rush and Aunt Sarah.

    Perhaps the administrators can guide you in setting it up on a blog page here. :D
     
  4. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    It has been a while since Sarah Palin, my favorite political figure, has come up in discussion. Gee, I would love for her to be President rather than Obama.
     
  5. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I wonder if she would have quit in the middle of her first term when faced with a bigger spotlight, criticism from political opponents or a potential "scandal"?
     
  6. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    She did what was best for her state, and her family when she stepped down. I respect her for that, her reasons and the fact she looked the world in the eye and told us in straight talk. She may have ruined any future political aspirations, but she did what she thought was the right thing to do. She took advantage of her popularity and created financial security for her family. She advocates for Tea Party principles at every opportunity. Palin is refreshing. She is flawed, but that makes her even more appealing because she is not pretending to be something she is not. I would trust her. There are very few political figures today I actually trust.

    I honestly wrote how I feel about Palin. How about you give us a paragraph on how you feel about Obama.
     
  7. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I will when I stop laughing.
     
  8. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    You think Alaska would have been better served at the time if she had continued as governor?
    You think she did not know the political cost of resigning and that she could have rode out her term and still made the money and would have been better positioned to run for Senate or President at a future date?
    How long was Obama a Senator before he ran for President? How effective was he as Senator? What is the difference between what he did and Palin actually resigning - other than honesty? Because neither would have been able to do the job they were being paid to do effectively.

    I know, it is not possible to say anything nice about Palin. I never understood why the media and those on the left are in such fear of her. She is just a petite soccer mom from Alaska. Is it that she went after corrupt government officials in her state, Republicans included? Is it her non-Ivy league education? Is it her hunting skills?

    [​IMG]

    What is it?
     
  9. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    She is a quitter.

    You respect that. I dont.

    I dont fear her. I think she is a caricature of what the Republican Party has become.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
  10. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    If you go by PolitiFact, Obama is clearly more trustworthy than Palin.
     
  11. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    She did it for Alaska. That is a bold statement right there.

    She cut and ran at the first sign she could profit elsewhere.
     
  12. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, to bring it back to the topic...or at least what Obama is dealing with now.

    It is relative as to what the president can control...there are those under them that do things that would be opposed if known.
    That's why you need to vote not only for the person, but consider those they will bring in with them. (policy, attitude, tendencies, etc...)

    But even with that, many do not understand how large and complex the federal government.
    (this is NOT an argument of the size, but what is simply needed to maintain a modern diverse large nation with a global reach...it is NOT simple)
    So, that being said...there is no way a leader or their immediate secondaries can cover everything always...and allow flexibility and discretion at the same time.
    Just like the cops can't be "there" always...would it be nice to be proactive? sure, but this is not realistic.

    Oh yeah, it's amazing the amount of Attention Deficit Disorder is out there, from all players, on all sides. :rolleyes:

    The key is how they REACT to the issue...do they cover it up? Do they not resolve it? Do they make excuses? Rationalizations? Do they take steps to prevent it in the future?
    Just as I allow my staff some leyway...and some "lessons learned" scenarios...I allow it from my leaders too.
    Only God can be perfect.


     
  13. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Let's not be silly. Or, do you suggest that it is always wise to continue to do something as opposed to quitting? Wise people know when to quit and when not to. palin made the wise choice to step down.

    If true, and from the perspective of Democrats one would think there would be a lot of encouragement that she stay in the spot light.
    --- merged: May 23, 2013 at 12:22 PM ---
    This is why I am an advocate for a smaller federal government. I say give more power to state and local government and trust the people.

    Although I have not done anything wrong and I have followed all our rules and regulations, I must plead the Fifth and not answer your questions. I would love to answer your questions and I have made public statement on these issues in the past and I really do have excellent responses, responses so good they would be a close second to the responses from the WH on the subjects they can not respond to, but since I did not break any laws and I would only tell the truth I fear I might incriminate myself in some way.:rolleyes:
    --- merged: May 23, 2013 at 12:28 PM ---
    Do you recall the circumstances. She even had a reporter move into a house next door to hers so he could have easier access to her trash. Almost ever news agency had people going to Alaska looking for dirt and disrupting the lives of Alaskans and the functions of government. She had people attacking her daughter, her youngest son. It was shameful.

    After she entered the national stage her financial future was set. I would argue the her resignation cost her money and hurt her future prospects.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2013
  14. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I want her in the spotlight, given that her poll numbers are deeper underwater (-25% favorable/unfavorable just last month) than the Republic brand as a whole;


    State security would have ensured that she not have a neighbor problem if she had remained in office and living in the governor's mansion..but she bailed. At least she installed a tanning bed at taxpayer expense for the next governor.

    Dirt? Anywhere near the level of racism, hatred, lies, innuendos, etc heaped on Obama, his wife and daughters.

    I dont know many who could be as thick skinned, turn-the-other-cheek and bear such venom and animosity on a daily basis as Obama has had to endure.

    Certainly not Palin, who wilted under the national spotlight and pressure and decided to hide behind the Fox shield and shill herself and her family at every opportunity.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  15. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    This is EXACTLY why I put the comment right below that line in that it is NOT an argument about size.

    People seem to think that simply government is "bad"...and a "larger" government is "badder".
    Not so.
    It is because we are a modern post-industrial nation of 315 MILLION over a whole content...and not only that, we're involved on the global stage.

    So you're saying it is better to keep track of more politicians, more budgets, more regulation, different laws, different corruption, etc...and so on...than one???
    Not really true...it depends on the situation...and if the local government is doing the right thing, which it isn't guaranteed either.

    We tried having it that way nationally...it didn't work, it's called the Articles of Confederation.
    We've also tried giving many states the discretion...but they dropped the ball or abused it.

    I'm not saying the federal government is perfect...or very efficient.
    But the answer is not always to make government smaller or hand it over to the lower jurisdictions. Nor is that bad either.

    People take an idea and take it to its extreme.
    EX: Fed is inefficient in some areas, so ALL fed government is inefficient. Fed govt is large, so the govt must be HUGE...and must be shrunk.
    I'd say, this is a logical fallacy.

    Evaluate, judge, consider, plan...look to the future, see how it affects all levels. Fed may be good, fed may not be the best idea, perhaps the states, perhaps that won't work.

    But that isn't easy. That takes work. And it doesn't sound great being screamed out in protest. (SMALL GOVERNMENT!!)

    So next time you stub your toe, we'll just cut off the toe. Heal blister...just chop off the foot. Hell, why don't we just git rid of the whole leg...or both legs...and the arms too. We don't like limbs.

    I think we should figure out how to make our government MORE efficient. (ALL levels)
    And what they don't use, they give back. (which they don't do now)
     
  16. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I think she will be proven right regarding Obamacare and death panels. I think the gun control debate will swing ratings more in her favor. I think the immegration reform debate will show she was more in line with the general American public than anyone currently working on the issue. I think Benghazi scandal will prove Hilary was not ready for that 3 am call but that the perception would be that Palin would have been. I think the IRS issue will reinvigorate the Tea Party and benefit Palin's ratings. So, I am actually optimistic and I do believe you have reason to be concerned regarding the liberal agenda.

    Either way it is wrong. I have no tolerance for this type of behavior. It is one thing to target the public figure, absolutely no reason to target the spouse and children.

    You seem to be unwilling to directly admit the attacks on Palin's family were wrong and contributed to the reason she made the choice to step down.
    --- merged: May 23, 2013 at 2:14 PM ---
    I understood your argument. I disagree.

    I think size is an issue. I don't care how good a leader is - an entity can get to big to manage. Simply by virtue of its size. I think you can have economies of scale to a point and then those benefits begin to diminish as an entity gets bigger. I think there is a theoretical optimal size for an entity - depending on its purpose.


    No. For example there is no reason for you to keep track of my household budget and my household rules. Your city need not be concerned with my city. Your state need not be concerned about my state. The Federal government need only be concerned for those items as outlined in the US Constitution. Health care is my business, not the Federal government's business.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2013
  17. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    You know that "death panels" are a myth, right?
     
  18. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    It is right up there with (paraphrasing) "climate change is a socialist hoax because only God can control weather (see Great Flood for details)"
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. roachboy

    roachboy Very Tilted

  20. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    If she was a wise person, I might buy into your vision. All I see (reality shows included) is a grasping social climber. She saw dollar signs and decided to take an easier route to limelight than the day to day labour of running her state.

    She wasn't making more money by staying put in Alaska. To suggest otherwise is just... wrong. I do agree that it hurt her future prospects but I don't think *she" saw it that way.


    Look, clearly you have high opinion of her. I don't.

    There is nothing in her actions or words that leads me to believe otherwise about her.

    From where I am sitting she represents the worst of America.