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Politics Obama - Actually doing a good job?

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    I say the free market doesn't care if millions of people are killed or the air we breathe is heavily polluted.

    Al Gore isn't the problem. Even in a world where he is wrong, it would still make more sense to spend a little money now to get a better environment, air quality, and decentralized energy sector. If I produce my own power, it is hard for big companies to charge me more to pay for their beach house, require me to work till I'm 80 to keep the lights on, or cause problems with mining the raw materials to power big power plants.
     
  2. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    This is a scenario that has occured quite often during Obama's term,
    where he's had to deal with the consequences of the actions or lack of actions of Congress.

    It's like a teacher, (good or not...let's not really judge quality here...that's arbitary and a long-term perspective)
    who is dealing with the grades of rotten students (or at least unattentive/uncaring)
    My cousin who's a HS math teacher has to do this ALL the time...and it has impact on his workload, sanity and ability to produce.
    And "authority figures" or outside observers end up judging them on HIS teaching ability. (when I know he's good and doing his damnedest)

    What do you do about a difficult student that you are forced by law to cater to???
    "You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make it drink..." (or in this case at time...a bucking bronco)
    It's like herding cats... (and a multitude of other metaphors)

    Congress has a LOT to account for the mess, not all Obama (or even GWB...)

    But Congress is an amorphous mass...the President a HARD target.
    One we are generally pissed at...yet they are re-elected time & again...the Prez gets to try to cleanup the mess or move it forward.
    Press on a Rep is fleeting...Bad press on the prez is bleeding...gets the viewers. One is a blur, the other is your favorite dodgeball target.

    Anyways...you get my point...here's TFA.
    Although...there may be a bright spot here...a beneficial side effect.

    IF Congress cannot get it's act together in time.
    Then Obama has almost full discretion to cut where he wants...under executive powers.
    And from my time being in the inside,
    I do KNOW that Obama's adminstration is attempting with effort to streamline and economize where possible.
    But Reps keep blocking due to their own interests.
    This will give him the paint remover he needs, without individual Reps the ability to interfere with trimming.

    I actually think I might like this...kind of like when Bush Sr. and Clinton got rid of unnecessary military bases.
    (kept alive by their local Reps despite their inefficiency or lack of need anymore)

    It's almost as if Congress suckered themselves into a limited line-item veto. :D
    Hey, if this works out well...maybe we can make this into a new precedent for the president.

    Or at least Congress, will learn their lesson...nah. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    I don't know why everyone feels they need to be able to "have a beer" with the President.
    Or that the President makes you feel intellectually inferior in some way.

    I'd rather have the person in charge be thinking about the problems, doing something about the problems
    not TALKING about it, not smiling at me for thinking he's just a super awesome guy.

    But the America public would rather have the verbose used-car salesman,
    than the charming professor who tinkers
    the glam rich vs. the practical.

    Americans SAY they want a good leader...then fall for the "Paris Hilton" of politicians, or The Donald. (great businessman, terrible pol)
    Americans SAY they want someone who thinks about them, who cares about them...then goes for the one who'll give them away.
    They ignore the actions & trends, but they listen to the comforting words.

    It's like they're the person pining for love & stability who constantly hooks up with the bad girl/boy again & again.

    I'd rather have the doctor that cures me, not just holds my hand while I'm in pain.
    And it's not like they have BAD bed-side manner, or don't take the time to explain...they just don't give flowers or a card.

    I don't get it.
     
  4. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    One of the best summations I've seen describing one of the political dynamics I've noted...
     
  5. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Interesting...will it make the difference?
    Even if it does...will it make a big win for the Dems or a mandate scenario??

     
  6. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Obama's still going after the youth vote...I wonder if Romney is doing the same thing?
    I haven't seen anything on it.

     
  7. Xerxes

    Xerxes Bulking.

    Today when I got off work and got on reddit, I saw that Obama did an AMA.

    You guys didn't miss anything though, he answered the softest questions he could. Also, theres really no verifying it was him or his staff, so maybe he is spot-on on the targeting the youth.
     
  8. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    An interesting future prospective of Obama's potential next term, drawn from his previous actions.

    I wanted to pop this up to the top again,
    because this is the guy that's going to be in spotlight for the upcoming DNC convention.

    I wonder if the Dems are going to put a better show on than the GOP.

     
  9. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    BTW...Politfact's scorecard on fulfilling his campaign promises.
    They don't pull punches.
    Link - (there are tons of links within the article...I'll let you pick & choose what you want)
    BTW...take a look at his listing of truths and lies...links on the side.

     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  10. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    The problem with scoring a president on promises, and this president in particular, is the role of an obstructionist Congress intent in blocking nearly every initiative.

    But I would agree that some Obama promises was the usual campaign rhetoric that goes back 200+ years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  11. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    I would agree definitely on GOP obstructionist tendencies during his first term.
    The fact they are saying now that they "wanted him to succeed" is absurd.

    I wish they could go back to promises with other presidents...but I guess that would be too much tediousness in effort & time.
    Politifact is a new site...using modern media to track & trend.

    While it would be easy to see the after affects...figuring out the old promises would be difficult against news articles and otherwise.
    They might not be available.

    I'd say he did decent...all things being considered.
    I mean...they're tracking the GOP promises now...and they don't have a better track record.

    Speaking of which...the top 10 list of kept vs. broken.
    Link - again...the article has a lot of link...I'll let you pick & choose.

     
  12. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    I found this interesting...clear, concise...unambigous.
     
  13. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Now this is fascinating to me.
    Not so much as this side or that side or in an ideological context.
    But as to how anyone in power negotiates out who would be best placed to get the job done.

    I took as much interest in it when GWB transitioned between terms.
    And I look upon it almost as much as I do President...these are the people who set the tone, gives the face...gives the bureaucrats their orders.
    Funny thing is...most people ignore it.

    Actually, I've met some of these people when I was at the OMB, especially Jack Lew (nice guy, very smart & straight-thinking, sincere)
    Humorously, I almost fell upon him when we were getting off the train. I tripped and careened right before him...thank god I didn't

    So, here you go...speculation on the next potential "go-to" team (I haven't seen anything for Romney yet)
     
  14. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    President Obama MIA on Wisconsin union fight.
    President Obama MIA on Chicago teacher union fight.
    President Obama MIA on ME turmoil.
    President Obama MIA on US budget.
    President Obama MIA on immigration reform.
    President Obama MIA on 2012 reported fiscal cliff.
    President Obama MIA on inner-city murder rate and poverty, in particular his home town Chicago.

    Why do so many people support President Obama for re-election? I think President Obama is close to being the worst President in US history.
     
  15. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I think it's more along the lines of worst liberal president in US history. After all, we need to keep G. W. Bush in mind; there's also Nixon and Hoover. Are we talking about all history or recent history?

    If only Obama would act like a liberal.
     
  16. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    He can't do everything...But there was a lot of big outside money trying to eliminate all unions.
    At least he isn't pulling a Reagan and busting the Union or forcing them back to work.
    That a few right-win wackos started this time. Things were getting better or at least progressing.
    Obama had a budget that no one liked, which means that it was probably the right thing for the country. No one will like what needs to happen. He should have pushed the Simpson Bolwes plan, but the GOP doesn't want $1 of tax increases in their fantasy world.
    I think there was a Dream Act. Though it really is a second term thing.
    Same with the budget.
    Yes, some of the cities do need a lot of work.

    With what he has put up with, it is the Right-wing Republicans preventing him from doing more things. And the future under a Romney & Teapublican House/Senate would be horrible.
     
  17. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Probably because so many people are far more objective than your Fox "fair and balanced" analysis.

    Especially the "elite smart people " (per Santorum) who will never support the right wing extremist agenda.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  18. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    If that's not a troll or hyperbole, I don't know what is.

    The reason they support him are two-fold...
    1. They like him and his efforts...if not his policies
    2. They don't like the alternative.
    It's as simple as that.
    If you don't understand it, vote for the other guy...or don't vote.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I don't pretend to be fair and balanced, I just know what I see and I know what I think - based on that, I draw my own conclusions. I actually spend more time listening or watching to MSNBC than Fox - I know what to expect from Fox and i get it, it is what comes from MSNBC that I find most confusing. For example how does President Obama get credit for following Bush's lead on many international issues but can pass the blame for the economy to Bush while again adopting the things that "got us in this mess, in the first place, following Bush's lead (i.e. - Bush tax cuts, deficit spending, signing legislation not paid for, etc)?"
    --- merged: Sep 16, 2012 8:58 PM ---
    The topic of Chicago schools came up in the past when Arnie Duncan was named Secretari of Education, at the time I made the editorial comment that I thought Chicago schools were the worst in the nation and that perhaps he needed to stay in that job and get results before moving on to a bigger job. I still hold that view. I recall at the time many here thought that was hyperbole. I also remember posts regarding the violence in Chicago long before Rahm Emanuel became Mayor. I recall at the time many here thought that was hyperbole. I was raised in a city about 30 miles outside of Chicago - I remember as a child the same empty rhetoric about solving problems as I hear today. Nothing, absolutely nothing has improved. Now on a national level President Obama makes the same empty promises we have heard for the past 50 years - when it is time to actually do something - MIA! Why is empty rhetoric enough? It is not enough for me. Neither hyperbole or trolling.

    Note - the alternative to President Obama could have been a primary challenger, could be a third party person. There are some Democrats who get results and can lead, while holding similar policy positions on key issues. Everyone wants better schools, end to war, good healthcare, jobs, affordable housing, wages growing faster than inflation, etc., etc.
    --- merged: Sep 16, 2012 9:06 PM ---
    All history. Bush accomplish many things of note. Nixon accomplished many things of note, he simply got entangled into a web a deceit and lies, but so did Clinton. Hoover's reputation has improved and many realize he took the majority blame for the Great Depression unnecessarily - but that he also accomplished many things of note. But if the point is Obama v Hoover, it is not a good sign for Obama.

    On Hoover
    American President: Herbert Clark Hoover: Impact and Legacy
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2012
  20. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Ace....your latest talking points are just baseless by any objective measure.

    You dont need to be an elitist or even very smart to know that presidents dont get involved in state/local labor issues (Wisc, Chicago). Or that presidents can impact local crime rates like Chicago (if so, give Obama credit for the lowest violent crime rates nationwide in 20+ years)

    You do have to be marginally objective to know that the Obama budget increases in 2010-2012 are at or near the lowest percentage increases in the last 10-20 years or that the pending "fiscal cliff" is more a result of the House Republicans reneging on the 2010 budget/spending sequestration agreement and leaving town until after the election.

    Immigration reform takes the other side being willing to negotiate. An executive order that will potentially bring 1+ million hard working young people out of the shadows is certainly better than any Republican proposal.

    The Middle East. I know you like the more bombastic, unilateral Bolton/PNAC approach that lead to the deaths of 4,000+ Americans at a cost of $1+ trillion and you more of the same?
    --- merged: Sep 16, 2012 at 5:37 PM ---
    You only need to be marginally objective to acknowledge Obama's first term legislative accomplishments, probably the most since Reagan.

    The first significant health care reform, preventing an economic collapse (including the auto industry), implementing banking reform, credit card reform, student loan reform, ending dont ask/dont tell, doubling the investment in alternative energy research and development, signing new START treaty ....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2012