NFL 2012 Discussion Thread

Tully Mars · Mar 23, 2012

Pixel said: ↑

They are going to be missing their head coach for the whole season, GM for half the season, several key players for probably half the season and they have a brand new D coordinator and a disgruntled QB. Make the Super Bowl? I'd say they are going to struggle to make the playoffs.
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Ok, it's official... we need a sarcasm font.

Borla · Mar 23, 2012

According to Pat Robertson, Peyton Manning deserves to get injured. *facepalm*

If Pat Robertson's vision of theological payback comes true, Peyton Manning will be injured this season as retribution for the Denver Broncos getting rid of Tim Tebow.
The televangelist was speaking recently on "The 700 Club," which is apparently still on television. He recited Tebow's accolades from the 2011 season and wondered whether the Broncos were tempting fate by leaving him off their 2012 ark.
"And you just ask yourself," Robertson said, "OK, so Peyton Manning was a tremendous MVP quarterback, but he's been injured. If that injury comes back, Denver will find itself without a quarterback. And in my opinion, it would serve them right."
Hey, what did Peyton do? He went to the team that wanted him the most. The Broncos were the ones who cast their wandering eyes elsewhere and besmirched the sanctity of the quarterback-franchise marriage. Wish a locust attack on the team or that it has to go play Detroit in a literal Lions den.
If any individual deserves a smiting, it's John Elway. Turn him into a pillar of salt! He's the one who cast Tebow out to the wilderness of eastern New Jersey, where he'll wander in the Meadowlands for 40 games and part traffic on the Turnpike.
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Pat Robertson believes Peyton Manning should get hurt this year | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo! Sports

Tully Mars · Mar 23, 2012

well ol'Pat says he's not smoking the pot he wants to legalize (likely the only issue he and I agree on) but when he makes statements like this I have to wonder.

Borla · Mar 23, 2012

Tully Mars said: ↑

well ol'Pat says he's not smoking the pot he wants to legalize (likely the only issue he and I agree on) but when he makes statements like this I have to wonder.
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I don't think Jesus would want him to be so spiteful.

Pixel · Mar 23, 2012

Tully Mars said: ↑

Ok, it's official... we need a sarcasm font.
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You could be a delusional Louisianan. How should I know

Tully Mars · Mar 30, 2012

Borla said: ↑

I don't think Jesus would want him to be so spiteful.
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Well here's a guy that believes in heaven, swears he and God are on a first name basis yet keeps coming up with all these "live forever" shakes and pancakes... you'd think he'd be happy to be headed to the afterlife. Maybe God told him everyone in heaven flies coach.
--- merged: Mar 23, 2012 at 4:03 PM ---

Pixel said: ↑

You could be a delusional Louisianan. How should I know
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Well you were half right... but I'm from Oregon.

Frosstbyte · Mar 23, 2012

This has been one of the most exciting NFL seasons already, and it hasn't even started yet. I agree with you 100% Borla that the Jets are one of the WORST possible places that Tebow could've gone. As an avowed Bronco fan and Tebow hater, I don't think this situation could have worked out much better for us. Two great draft picks, Manning at the helm and no more Tebowmania? I'm so happy I could cry! But I have a hard time believing that anything about the Jets will end up matching with Tebow's personality or strengths. George RR Martin had a few words to say about it on his blog: Not A Blog - No, No, No

Pixel · Mar 23, 2012

Gonna be a M-E-S-S Mess! Mess! Mess!

fflowley · Mar 23, 2012

Frosstbyte said: ↑

This has been one of the most exciting NFL seasons already, and it hasn't even started yet. I agree with you 100% Borla that the Jets are one of the WORST possible places that Tebow could've gone. As an avowed Bronco fan and Tebow hater, I don't think this situation could have worked out much better for us. Two great draft picks, Manning at the helm and no more Tebowmania? I'm so happy I could cry! But I have a hard time believing that anything about the Jets will end up matching with Tebow's personality or strengths. George RR Martin had a few words to say about it on his blog: Not A Blog - No, No, No
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As a Bills fan completely agree. This is great news.
I never thought the Jets could be a bigger mess than they were last year. Now I have changed my mind.

Craven Morehead · Mar 23, 2012

I don't recall a more interesting off season than this one. And all in the past few weeks.

ralphie250 · Mar 24, 2012

Craven Morehead said: ↑

I don't recall a more interesting off season than this one. And all in the past few weeks.
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I agree...

Tully Mars · Mar 24, 2012

At lest there's no talk of a lock out or strike... yet.

Craven Morehead · Apr 5, 2012

Not much to say about this, speaks for itself.

fflowley · Apr 6, 2012

Yeah that Williams audio really turns my stomach.

Borla · Apr 23, 2012

Wow, even more trouble for the Saints.........this one is gonna hurt too.......

NEW ORLEANS -- The U.S. Attorney's Office in the Eastern District of Louisiana was told Friday that New Orleans Saints general manager Mickey Loomis had an electronic device in his Superdome suite that had been secretly re-wired to enable him to eavesdrop on visiting coaching staffs for nearly three NFL seasons, "Outside the Lines" has learned.
Sources familiar with Saints game-day operations told "Outside the Lines" that Loomis, who faces an eight-game suspension from the NFL for his role in the recent bounty scandal, had the ability to secretly listen for most of the 2002 season, his first as general manager of the Saints, and all of the 2003 and 2004 seasons. The sources spoke with "Outside the Lines" under the condition of anonymity because of fear of reprisals from members of the Saints organization.
Jim Letten, the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Louisiana, acknowledged being told of the allegations Friday and has briefed the FBI in New Orleans about Loomis' alleged activity, according to sources. If proven, the allegations could be both a violation of NFL rules and potentially a federal crime, according to legal sources. The federal Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA) of 1986 prohibits any person from intercepting communications from another person using an electronic or mechanical device.
"I can say that we were just made aware of that on Friday, at least of these allegations," Letten said. "Anything beyond that I'm afraid I'm not at liberty to comment."
Greg Bensel, Saints vice president of communications, said Monday afternoon on behalf of the Saints and Loomis: "This is 1,000 percent false. This is 1,000 percent inaccurate."
NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said the league was unaware of the allegations.
Sources told "Outside the Lines" the listening device was first installed in the general manager's suite in 2000, when Loomis' predecessor, Randy Mueller, served as Saints GM. At that time, according to sources, Mueller only had the ability to use the device to monitor the game-day communications of the Saints coaching staff, not the opposing coaches. Mueller, now a senior executive with the San Diego Chargers (he also was an ESPN.com NFL analyst from 2002-05), declined to comment when contacted by "Outside the Lines."
After the transition from Mueller to Loomis, the electronic device was re-wired to listen only to opposing coaches and could no longer be used to listen to any game-day communications between members of the Saints coaching staff, one source said.
"There was a switch, and the switch accessed offense and defense," said the source. "When Randy was there, it was the Saints offense or defense, and when Mickey was there it changed over so it was the visiting offense or defense," the source said.
"Outside the Lines" could not determine for certain whether Loomis ever made use of the electronic setup.
The sources said when Loomis took his seat during home games, then in the front row of box No. 4 in the 300 level of the Superdome's north side, he was able to plug an earpiece into a jack that was under the desk in front of him. The earpiece was not unlike those used to listen to inexpensive transistor radios, the sources said. With the earpiece in place, Loomis could then toggle back and forth with a switch that he controlled, enabling him to listen to either the game-day communications of the opposing offensive or defensive coaches.
Also underneath the desk in front of Loomis, said the sources, was a metal box that contained two belt packs similar to those worn around the waists of NFL head coaches during games. The packs powered the listening device available to Loomis, which was, according to sources, hard-wired to the audio feed of the opposing coaches.
The wiring setup was disabled sometime in September 2005 in the weeks after Hurricane Katrina ravaged the Gulf Coast. The timing of the device's removal could prove significant for legal reasons. If Loomis used an electronic device to secretly listen to the opposing coaches without their consent, it would appear to be a violation of the federal ECPA statute, said Mike Emmick, a Los Angeles-based attorney.
Emmick worked for 25 years as an assistant U.S. attorney in Los Angeles, serving for eight years as chief of the public corruption and government fraud section.
"The ECPA bars any person from intentionally intercepting wire, oral or electronic communications by using an electronic or mechanical device," Emmick said. "The ECPA doesn't make it illegal just to eavesdrop. You have to have used a device ... Intentional interception by using the device is the key."
But the statute of limitations, the window federal prosecutors have to pursue any criminal charges against Loomis or the Saints, would only extend for five years after the date of such an offense, Emmick said.
If Loomis no longer had the ability to eavesdrop on opposing coaches after the 2004 season, he would be free from any potential criminal prosecution for a violation of the ECPA, Emmick said.
Loomis' alleged activity also would be a violation of Louisiana state law, according to Danny Onorato, a former assistant U.S. attorney now in private practice in Washington, D.C., where he specializes in white-collar crime. The statute of limitations for the law governing electronic eavesdropping in Louisiana is six years, Onorato said.
"A prosecutor or law enforcement should conduct a thorough investigation to make sure these are the facts. Did these individuals re-connect this device in some way?" Onorato said.
"At a minimum, somebody somewhere has a duty to investigate it to ensure the integrity of the game of football," he said.
Emmick said that it's possible Loomis and others could still be prosecuted for taking part in a conspiracy to cover up the federal ECPA violation. The statute of limitations for prosecution of a conspiracy is also five years, Emmick said, but that period would begin with the last "overt act" of the parties involved in a conspiracy.
In this case, any attempt to cover up the ECPA violation that extended into 2007 could constitute such an overt act and fall within the window of the statute of limitations, Emmick said.
Emmick and Onorato both said that any prosecution on the basis of a conspiracy to cover up an ECPA violation is unlikely. But there is another potentially far more costly aspect to Loomis' alleged behavior, according to Emmick and other legal sources contacted by ESPN.
"There's the potential for a lot of lawsuits filed by whoever was victimized by the electronic eavesdropping," Emmick said.
Under the civil laws that govern electronic eavesdropping, the victims of the eavesdropping would have two years from the time they had a "reasonable opportunity to discover the violation" in order to file lawsuits, Emmick said.
In other words, if an opposing team or individuals who were eavesdropped upon wanted to sue Loomis or the Saints, the clock would start ticking on their time frame to file a lawsuit when they discovered the alleged ECPA violation, not when the violation actually occurred.
Under Article No. 9 of the Constitution and Bylaws of the NFL, which lists "Prohibited Conduct," the league specifically bans the use of "...videotape machines, telephone tapping or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic device that might aid a team during the playing of a game."
"That would be a stupendous advantage if you had that," said Rick Venturi, who was the team's defensive coordinator during the period the sources said Loomis could eavesdrop on opposing coaches.
"That's shocking," Venturi said, when told of the allegations. "I can tell you if we did it, nobody told me about it. ... Nobody ever helped me during a game."
Venturi served in various capacities during a decade-long period with the Saints coaching staff, including a brief stint as interim head coach, and now hosts a radio program on an ESPN Radio affiliate in St. Louis.
Attempts to reach former Saints head coach Jim Haslett were not successful. Haslett served as the Saints head coach from 2000-05 and is now defensive coordinator of the Washington Redskins. Sean Payton was named head coach of the Saints in 2006.
Rick Mueller, the brother of former Saints general manager Randy Mueller, was in the Saints front office from 2000-08 and was a regular in Loomis' booth during Saints home games.
"I sat right next to him most of the time," said Mueller, who now serves as a player personnel executive with the Philadelphia Eagles. Mueller said he vaguely recalled Loomis using an earpiece during games but he could not recall whether Loomis ever did so during the period in which sources allege Loomis had the ability to eavesdrop on opponents.
During Saints home games, Loomis typically sat in a seat next to the glass separating the Saints front office personnel from the Saints assistant coaches. When asked whether Loomis in any way signaled those Saints assistants on the other side of the glass during games, Mueller replied: "I didn't get any indication of that. ... There's no communication going on between Mickey and the coaches during a game I can tell you that. ... If it was just Mickey hearing it, I would see no way he could signal our coaches next door."
In 2002, the Saints compiled a 9-7 record. The team had an 8-8 record during the 2003 and 2004 seasons. In those three seasons combined, the Saints were 12-12 in the Superdome.
The 2005 season remains the infamous one that the Saints never played a home game in the Superdome due to the devastating impact of Hurricane Katrina. According to sources, that was also the first time Loomis would not have had the ability to listen in on the play calls of opposing teams. That year the Saints finished 3-13.
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has an established a track record of issuing severe penalties when teams attempt to skirt those rules.
When it was discovered that the New England Patriots videotaped the New York Jets coaches' signals during a September 2007 game -- the so-called "Spygate" episode -- Patriots head coach Bill Belichick was fined $500,000 by the NFL, the maximum amount permitted under league rules.
The Patriots were also fined $250,000 by the NFL, and the team was forced to give up its first-round pick in 2008.
"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," Goodell wrote at the time in a letter to the Patriots.
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Sources: New Orleans Saints' Mickey Loomis could eavesdrop on opposing coaches during home games - ESPN

Fremen · Apr 23, 2012

Holy shit!
Do you think this had any influence in helping them win the Super Bowl?
I know it said that the device wasn't working after a certain point, but the knowledge gained by listening over a period of time, could've been retained to be used over the years and influenced any decisions the staff made in their game plays and coaching styles.

What a disgusting turn of events.

Borla · Apr 23, 2012

Fremen said: ↑

Holy shit!
Do you think this had any influence in helping them win the Super Bowl?
I know it said that the device wasn't working after a certain point, but the knowledge gained by listening over a period of time, could've been retained to be used over the years and influenced any decisions the staff made in their game plays and coaching styles.

What a disgusting turn of events.
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I highly doubt it had any impact 6-8 years later. The turnover of NFL coaches and personnel is so great that any terminology or tendencies gleaned from that type of eavesdropping would've been nil by the time they got to the SB.

Fremen · Apr 23, 2012

I hope so, cause it pisses me off to think about it.

Pixel · Apr 24, 2012

This is going to be 10x worse than "Spygate". Loomis could be looking at federal charges after this all shakes out.

Borla · Apr 25, 2012

Pixel said: ↑

This is going to be 10x worse than "Spygate". Loomis could be looking at federal charges after this all shakes out.
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They are denying it vehemently. The NFL says they won't start investigating until the criminal investigation is completed. Could get interesting.

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NFL 2012 Discussion Thread

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Frosstbyte Winter is coming

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fflowley Don't just do something, stand there!

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fflowley Don't just do something, stand there!

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Fremen Allright, who stole my mustache?

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Fremen Allright, who stole my mustache?

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NFL 2012 Discussion Thread

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fflowley Don't just do something, stand there!

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fflowley Don't just do something, stand there!

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Fremen Allright, who stole my mustache?

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