Males, being male and the aspects of it, good and bad

My parents split when I was still in elementary school. I split time between their households and they were both the type to handle their shit. So growing up I didn't really have this manufactured notion of "men do this, women do that" forced into my skull. Mom and dad both took care of business. They both challenged themselves and us. They both generally acted like functional, responsible adults. So when I see discussions like these, I think "where are these definitions of masculinity actually coming from?" I know I got most of my gender-specific messaging from my friends and from stupid-ass cartoons.

I see traditional notions of gender problematic because not only are they completely unnecessary (see @omega's list of masculine qualities. These are all awesome qualities and ones that I would love to see in everybody, regardless of gender. I'm not talking shit here, seriously, it's a good list), but they also create constraining expectations about how people should behave. "Boys don't cry" is an appeal to masculinity that's done massive amounts of damage to the psyches and interpersonal relationship abilities of generations of males.

The differences within men and women are much more vast than the differences between men and women. So the characterization of some traits and feminine and some as masculine can't be rooted in the desire to accurately describe reality. I think the maintenance of gender roles is more about the maintenance of predictability in social interactions. It's about giving someone a big X to stand on and telling them that they will be judged by how well they can stand on that X, and so they better fucking learn how to stand on it, regardless of whether it's something they're naturally inclined to do.

 

Begin lengthy response:

1. This thread was one of the first to catch my attention when I joined the board. I thought the opening premise was an intriguing one and I was interested in chiming in. But when I saw where the more recent discussion was heading, I felt like I had less to say. I'm glad to see the thread working its way back toward the initial question.

2. I agree with a lot of what has been said recently by members in regards freeing ourselves from cumbersome and unnecessary stigmas regarding masculinity.

3. Agreeing with what somebody else already said makes for a lame post, so I'm gonna' jump in here on the devil's advocate side of things and accentuate the extent to which I disagree, or at least question some of the premises.

4. Unteathering ourselves from traditional roles can have both a positive and negative side. To use the "Shawshank" analogy, we can experience this new found freedom like Andy Dufrane in the spirit of liberation and possibility, or like Brooks in nihilistic exile from the only home we've ever known.

5. mythologies, rituals, and rites of passage have guided human affairs for countless generations. I believe there is a lot to be said for a Mitzvah, or a walkabout, or whatever process was more traditionally used to help guide the awkward way to manhood. It seems right that in the 21st century, we should question cultural expectations that no longer hold the same relevance in our own times. But I think it is just as important that we spend as much time considering what will take their place.

6. A personal example to illustrate my point: concerning dating, et. al.

I grew up as a gen-Xer with fairly traditional parents. My folks were at the very leading edge of the baby boom, grew up in fairly traditional households, and managed to squeak most of the way through college before the 60's became the "the sixties." They were by no means repressed or overly conservative. But I think they instilled in me a fairly traditional set of values about being a gentleman and how to treat members of the opposite sex.

Add to that layer the various forms of feminism that one encounters in culture and the 15 year old mind starts to become a little more confused. (I'm not pointing at any particular feminist viewpoint here, just a generalized sense of the word and its associations as perceived by an awkward, pimple-faced, white kid from the suburbs). Top that off with my indoctrination to college life and the culture of drunken hook-ups and you see three vastly different ideas in play for a well-intentioned guy who just wants to do the right thing.

I obviously made my way through it all and eventually came into my own definition of who I was and what I stood for (full disclosure, still a work in progress). But I think if one looks at popular culture and the media now it's easy to see how today's 15 year old guy is probably wondering if he should ask that girl he likes out on a date, or just sext her a picture of his junk.

7. In the tradition of all great pains in the ass... Socrates, Karl Marx, Ralph Nader... I am admittedly far better at pointing out where the problems are with the status quo than I am in defining a better way forward.

 

Interesting article about men and suicide. Excerpt:

 

It's telling that even that article as good as it is at times still falls into the old habit of treating men as defective and the source of the problem, still needs to shoehorn in a "women have it worse" moment, and still needs to say "See? It's all because of the patriarchy!". In a way the article's own callousness answers its own question of why men kill themselves so much.

When women so much as blink it's proof that our entire culture and society must be radically changed. Thousands and thousands of dollars must be poured into social programs, laws must be passed, articles written, women are perfect as they are and the world must change to stop oppressing them.

When men kill themselves by the thousands it's proof that men are defective. Men need to change. They're privileged, how could they, what could they possibly want or need. They need to be told how good they have it and how bad women have it so they stop acting so ungrateful and selfish.

And if anyone commits the unforgiveable sin of saying men aren't defective and tries to actually do exactly that? Well, we've seen the bomb threats, death threats, and mobs of violent protestors they're met with.

 

Some things in life are just inherently male, at least to me, hunting and fishing, machine shop work, handling a chain saw, plumbing and building, any hard manual labour. Mechanicing, And just that whole thing I am a Dude. I like the fact that I am a pitcher not a catcher. I actually can't think of one single negative of being a man.

 

Ever been kicked in the balls?

 

My SO's teen sister keeps jokingly threatening to kick/punch me in the balls someday.

I laugh, but I'm secretly terrified she'll make good on her word.

 

So many people think it's funny or a game and have no idea how easy it is to put someone in the hospital that way. People have lost testicles and died from a good hit to the balls.

 

Probably because even that degree of roughness is still nowhere near an actual kick to the balls.

 

Testicles can withstand a good deal of gentle pressure if applied to both equally. But squeeze one without the other, and you'll find it's quite painful.

 

I was going to disagree with you and then I realised I just spent ten minutes squeezing my own testicles to see if it was true.

 

Not as far as I know. At least I haven't ever done so.

Same. When the lady is doing it, fondling/massaging of the balls with one hand while using both mouth and other hand on the cock feels insanely good.

 

OUCH! !! Yeah and I remember a time when I thought a woman was going to chew my dick off. Got any stories you want to share @Stan?