Males, being male and the aspects of it, good and bad

I remember it being a thing in the 70s, both in pop culture and in personal experience. It was usually framed in a "women's lib" context. It usually wasn't an angry thing. It was usually more like, "I don't need a man to open the door for me. I can do it myself."

I remember it because I was young at the time and being schooled by my Mom to hold the door for a lady... always. This was the same Mom who, despite being made a pariah by friends and family, filed for a divorce in 1968. She worked and raised me on her own and gave a very clear example of not needing a man's help without ever really saying it aloud.

By and large, I haven't seen or heard any woman get upset with a man holding a door open for her since about the time they stopped calling it Women's Lib (late 70s early 80s).

 

@baraka_guru, that's very close to my experience as well.

I didn't want to drop the postmodern thing into the conversation but it was an important aspect of writing my own sense of self.

 

I'm glad you specified idea, because last time I checked you haven't invited me to either of these things!

 

Especially where it pertains to architecture... ugh.
--- merged: Nov 25, 2013 at 11:26 PM ---
This is relevant (and also ahead of its time):


View: http://youtu.be/nwOcc-buSsg

 

I guess for me its really about taking responsibility. And that's not really a masculine or feminine trait to me. I don't know, I don't think I really label things aa masculine or feminine. It has to do more with the context it's presented. My mom was really capable, smart, strong. Not a girlie girl. Couldn't cook, looked odd in makeup, wore sweatshirts and jeans. But she was a teacher. Loved sports. Was not a hugger, but was so patient with me and ADD. I grew up expecting women to be people. Earn a salary. Be respected in your career. Men listened to her. Do what you want. Go camping. Get a high level of education. Play sports. So traits I admire are people who take care of their shit. Their families, their jobs, their lives. And definitions of masculinity have gotten so fucked up. It seems like its only in the past thirty years that looking like a schlub is considered manly. Pictures of wild bill hickock show him dressed to the nines. Viking warriors wore gold objects of incredible beauty. Why do women love men in uniforms? Because their shit is clean, pressed, their shoes are shined, their hair is maintained.
I do think men need a hobby or hobbies. It gives them something to focus on, to control. A place to express creativity. A sense of accomplishment. You may just push papers, but you have spent two years restoring a mustang. And maybe you even shared something with your kids while doing it.

 

(I like postmodernist architecture. Much of it.)
/neither here nor there

 

Ugh. Pastiche. Mixing with no meaning...
/end threadjack (sorry)

 

Well, one might find a better example than that...
(should start a thread on architecture so that I can get rhapsodic about brutalism)

 

I love brutalism. It is the shit! But it's high modernist rather than postmodern.

Just sayin'.

off to start a thread

 

you're telling me?

 

Eh. I've met some, and the meeting was never pleasant in the slightest.

In Germany these ultra-independent women are referred to as Kampfsau in a derogatory manner. It literally translates to "fighting sow", and signifies an overly aggressive fuck-off attitude.

 

I think you are being a tad too dismissive of ball busting and social pressure.

It's one thing to say that any adult male should be able to stand up for himself and do what he wants. Sure, times have changed and much more is permissible, but it just not as tidy as you are painting it. There are, I would suggest, more pressures to behave "manly" today than ever before... only now "manly" is charged with a diversity of meaning.

I would go further to say that the socialisation of boys is still subject to many of the same pressures and abuses that we experienced in our own childhoods and that this plays no small part in the shaping of men.

All this to say, I think your have tried to simplify things a bit too much.

 

assholes are assholes after all.

 

If I was referred to as a fighting sow I might have a fuck off attitude too. And if its cultural to refer to women this way, maybe they need some adjustment.

 

The question of the chicken or the egg, huh.

And a nice sweeping statement on another culture you completely do not understand, right there.

 

Uh, yeah. Shitting on women is wrong in any culture. And if your culture shits on women than it is wrong, period. Its a simple fact of human rights. I don't have to experience something personally to know its wrong. Maybe your culture has limited your understanding of what's right and wrong.

 

It's a description of an individual's behavior and attitude. Much like "presumptive asshole".

That Kampfsau primarily applies to women with the described behavior doesn't make it a human rights issue. Dickhead doesn't seem to have the PC party up in arms yet as an unacceptable description of a man.

Way to have zero comprehension, mate. Maybe your evaluation of right and wrong needs to be less immediate and more thought through.