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Life insurance questions. What do you have/pay?

Discussion in 'Tilted Life and Sexuality' started by Borla, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. greywolf

    greywolf Slightly Tilted

    I used to do financial counselling, and insurance was always one of the worst subjects. Canadians have more insurance than any other country in the world, per capita, and WAY TOO MUCH of it is the wrong type. Sorry for the long discourse below, but it's something I think people don't think about enough.

    You must assess your needs - you need to wind up your estate, cover your debt and funeral expenses, and make sure that your spouse/children can continue to live with a reasonable standard of living. That varies with everyone. Before you buy insurance, figure out what you need. Then, and only then, go to an agent and tell them you want to buy that amount of non-participating, renewable, convertible, term life insurance. Nothing more or less. They will try to sell you more attractive products with cash values that you can borrow against or get as a lump sum at a future date. This is not a good idea. The assumed interest rate on these higher priced products is extremely low. You will do much better to invest the difference in a retirement savings product.

    If you are single, you need only enough to cover your debts and funeral expenses. If you don't care about being buried/cremated, you don't even need that, but it's a bad idea because your family will probably want some sort of service.

    Do not fall for the line that it will never be cheaper than if you buy it now... that's true, but it's also true it will always cost you less if you start later, other than if something happens to make you uninsurable. Do not insure your children for more than funeral costs... they are a financial liability (albeit the best things you will ever have). You don't insure liabilities, you insure assets.

    Although it is very dated now, The Wealthy Barber by David Chilton (available in both US and Canadian versions) is still a great basic financial self-help starter. Plus, it has THE VERY BEST explanation of insurance I've ever read, written in easy to understand terms.

    I still have coverage at 4x my pension... not because I'm not self-insured, but because I'm carrying a lot more debt than most retirees and I do not want my family to have to convert any of my investments to cover the debt should I die. To a certain extent, it's a luxury in that sense, but because it's a group policy with my former company, it's at a very good rate, so I've taken advantage of it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    This is kind of what I am aiming for. I don't want it as an investment. I want it to allow my wife to keep the house and basically the same lifestyle if something happens to me. Same thing for myself if something happens to her. Because I make more than she does, there needs to be more coverage on me than her. Because of our ages, I'm thinking 30 year term is probably the best bet. By the time we are in our mid-60s our house (be it this one or another) should be paid for. Retirement should be funded. At that point something low enough to cover funeral expenses should be adequate.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. greywolf

    greywolf Slightly Tilted

    There are other considerations that may enter into your assessment. If you are both salaried employees, then probably it's an easy calculation. If you are self-employed, or have a partner, or are just a large investor in a small business (silent partner sort of thing), then you have more considerations to make (what happens if your partner dies or wants to sell out; what if the business goes bad; that sort of thing). But certainly by mid-60's most people should be self-insured, and only an odd situation (like mine) should govern your insurance needs.
     
  4. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    We both are employed at places where our income is fairly static. So we don't have the added complexity of being involved in business ownership.
     
  5. foxxrain New Member

    I don't know the exact amount but it's more or less $200 through Allstate. They said it's the cheapest in the area so I indulged in getting one recently.
     
  6. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher

    Really? They have Allstate in the Phillipines?
     
  7. Poetry

    Poetry Totally Sharky, Complete

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    My father does insurance and investments through Prudential. Life insurance is his thing, though. I pay $60 a month for $100,000 pay out, which I can draw against without penalty or need for repay once I've paid into it for three months. It's basically my house down payment, ripening on the vine. I think I have one year left.

    Borla, or whoever, message me if you want me to introduce you to my dad so you can talk life insurance options, he's good. He'll also tell you if he thinks you're getting a bad offer from his company or any other company.
     
  8. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    Oddly enough it looks like they do. Doesn't mean that it's less than passing the spam test. And Filipinos know spam. They live it with rice and fried eggs. Mmmmmmmm yummy!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member

    Location:
    Nebraska
    I have about 18 years left on a $200,000 paid up 20-year term policy that I negotiated as part of agreeing to stay on as a "consultant" after leaving my job in Boston. They like to keep people as consultants because it keeps their non-disclosure and non-compete clauses active. I like it because it gives me access to a lot of proprietary information that I would otherwise have to subscribe to on my own.

    I don't have any dependents, so I don't really "need" life insurance at all. Borla, you probably don't "need" any either, but it's nice to leave a little golden parachute for your wife, even without kids.
    As an active investor, I see whole life and its permutations as just about the worst investment vehicles out there. Its only advantage is that it enforces the discipline of regular investment, but the ROI on whole life is niggardly at best.
    I think it best to buy term and invest the (considerable) difference in nearly anything else.

    Possibly even long term disability insurance.
    With no children in the picture, your long term disability might be a much greater burden to your spouse than your death.
    Take ten seconds and think about that.

    Edit. I agree 100% with what greywolf posted while I was writing my post.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
  10. Long term disability insurance, yep got it. Not cheap. If your employer offers some form disability, study it. I'll bet it is minimal, at best. You can always supplement.