Is Capitalism Broken?

Uh...I agree they should save...but I also know often they CANNOT save.
Kind of hard to save when you're feeding yourself...and perhaps others. Because you know they are POOR.

And I'm sure they would "love" a piece of our economy, but they CAN'T. Again, because they are POOR.

Not lost, I just don't understand how you cannot get how people are POOR.
Poor means they do NOT have money to do things beyond the basics, if even that.
You know...Eat, Keep Warm, Dress and other "vague" items.

They aren't depressed for jollies. They aren't frustrated for warm & fuzzies. They aren't angry, just for kicks.

See, not everyone has the same intelligence and/or luck you have.
Sometimes they start that way.
Sometimes they get that way.

Take it from someone who IS skilled and intelligent and makes a good wage.
ONE friggin' bad turn (like a health issue) can put you under. And that's just luck.

Capitalism works.
But even those with skill and talent can't do shit if they can't ever get a leg up.
I'm not saying they shouldn't work hard.
I'm not saying that we should pay for it.

I am saying, that sometimes, things are easier said than done.
And take that from someone who's come up from nowhere and had nothing.
In many ways, I got lucky.
And in some ways, I got help. (from family, certainly NOT the government, I'm too "well" to get help from them...they just take my money)
And I'm grateful for both.

Now, I'm damn good at investing...it's just a shame that everytime I get results for a brief time, I have to cash out for emergencies.
Or I don't have enough liquidity to take advantage ...again due to emergencies.

Life's a bitch. It's fair to some. It's not to others.
I don't mind people making money.
I just mind TWO things.
One, I want those who are making money to not gip others for even more money. (which many ARE doing)
Two, I want those who are making money to comprehend that others may not be able to make money for good reason. (not "just" lazy)

You get that?? Or did you get lost yourself??

 

Part of the problem with the poor is the lack of assets and, in many cases, carrying debt. Factor in a low income with little, if any, discretionary income, and being debt-free is a tough enough challenge, let alone building assets.

Much of the wealth disparity is undermined when people look at income only. Real incomes have been flat for the middle and lower classes, but this is paired with few assets relatively speaking compared to the richest Americans. Wealth is built over time from income earnings and the growth of assets. When the poor have few earnings to contribute and no assets, they go nowhere fast. When trying to boost income through work fails, there is nothing else to do, as there are no assets to work with.

So basically they get stuck.

The wealthy? Even if they decide not to work, they can still derive an income from their assets. In many cases, it can dwarf the income of those who bust their asses at two and a half jobs.

 

AND...I will say that there are some poor that do abuse the system and are lazy.
BUT...It can be equally said that some wealthy that do so also.

Unless you can explain subsidies that are going to companies with record profits.
Or wealthy estates that are getting them under "farming" subsidies. (Even in the middle of Manhattan???)
Or those that write off a significant percentage of their taxes for ambiguous reasons. (Tax-havens anyone??)
and so on...

Abuse is not exclusive to any class.

So why do well off people and entities get away with this when we prosecute those who don't have as much??? (Corruption anyone?)
Why shouldn't the government go after them too?? (I believe I've heard the rationalization of "job-creators" in the past)
The essence of LAW is that is should apply to everyone.

If I have to pay a certain percent for my income, then others should pay the same percent on their gains. (which IS income)
If I get fined for littering, then I expect a factory that dumps chemicals into water to get one too. (although bigger, because the impact is bigger)
If you get put in jail for DUI, then you should expect that the pretty rich celebrity gets a stay in the slammer too.

Equal.
Your class should not denote your ability...nor should it adjust the consequences of law.

And if you make tons of money...GREAT, excellent, spend away. Enjoy.
Just don't think you deserve a different standard.

So if some companies and farmers or other industries CAN have subsidies to assist through difficult times...which is reasonable. (within reason)
Then some people can have some assistance also, during difficult times. (within reason)

Equal.

 

With all due respect, it's very difficult to tell with you. Some would say nearly impossible.
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Would you say the American economy hasn't changed in 150 years?
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About 25% of private-sector workers earn less than $10 an hour.
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A common misconception is that minimum-wage jobs are only transitional jobs or jobs for students. The harsh reality is that many adults are getting stuck in jobs earning the current minimum wage or not much higher, and often without benefits because it's technically part-time work (often just short of full-time). It's even the case for people trained in other work worth more money. Underemployment is an issue.

“You Want Fries With That?” Underemployment Remains Stubbornly High | Breakout - Yahoo! Finance

 

Actually 25% is quite substantial when you look at the numbers.

Over 80% of the workforce has a high school education or above. Nearly a third has a bachelor's degree or higher. Only about 12% don't have a high school education.

Now you consider that 1 out of every 4 private-sector workers are earning less than $10. The significance of that number is related to findings that living wages, state to state, are anywhere between $3 to $7 higher than the Federal minimum wage of $7.25.

Those under the age of 25 make up about half of minimum wage earners. The other half are made up of workers ranging between 25 and over 70. Add in the wage range between, say, $8 and $9 an hour, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the age distribution skew higher.

These numbers mean a few things. Two things that come to mind is that 1) Those making less than a living wage (e.g., $10/hour) aren't all young people who are students or who are in transitional jobs, and 2) Many of those making less than a living wage have a high school education or higher, and are likely underemployed.

As it's looking these days, you need a college degree to land a job paying $10 an hour, and many graduates are doing just that. Many of them will find entry-level jobs ranging between $10 and $15 an hour.

 

Why, thank you Manic for your insightful and inciteful links. You may "infer that I mean" to give them the full attention that they deserve. I appreciate your willingness to share your expertise in the abhorrent and disgusting, (by which I infer that you mean ideas different from yours) especially the biopower link.

I did some reading of Foucault when I was in college. I had a wisdom tooth extracted in the same semester. I found the dental work more enlightening and less painful.
I do find the Foucault Pendulum interesting and enjoyed sitting on the stairs by the one at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago. But that's a different Foucault.

Perhaps you could find me a spot in a re-education camp where I would be gently turned back in the right left direction. After all, we can't have folks going around with ideas different than yours, now can we?

 

Aceventura , if your family has been on them, then surely you know how hard it is to get on them and stay on them. It takes a lot of hoop jumping, willingness to deal with bureaucracy, and proof of income--repeatedly. If this is not the case, then that is a local government issue, not a federal issue, since states are responsible for issuing SNAP benefits. Additionally, yes, SNAP benefits come on plastic cards now--but I don't think that makes them any harder to spot. It's not really a system left open for abuse. I'm sure there are people who abuse it, but that is true for any system.

You also clearly don't understand that no matter how hard you work, there are some organizations out there that aren't going to give you a raise or more hours. For the last several years, employment options have been limited, no matter what your accomplishments or work effort. Companies and organizations aren't paying people what they deserve. I worked for two years at an organization that had completely done away with their system of raises. No matter how hard I worked, I was never going to earn more. Real wages have stagnated: The sad but true story of wages in America | Economic Policy Institute Depending on where people live, their options may be even more limited. Perhaps the only place to work in town is Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart often caps hours for workers so that they cannot receive health benefits. According to the Washington Post, one growing segment of society is the working poor: Ranks of working poor increasing - Washington Post These are the people that need SNAP benefits and the social safety net; no matter how hard they work, their wages just aren't high enough to get ahead.

And I'm disappointed that I missed the discussion on financing college education a few pages back. To sum up, there is a limit on how much students can borrow from the federal government. There are caps for every year, and there are lifetime caps. Any money over those caps comes from a private source, either private loans or grants from the institution the person is attending (this is true in the case of private schools with large endowments) or from scholarships.


Year
Dependent Students (except students whose parents are unable to obtain PLUS Loans)
Independent Students (and dependent undergraduate students whose parents are unable to obtain PLUS Loans)

First-Year Undergraduate
$5,500—No more than $3,500 of this amount may be in subsidized loans.
$9,500—No more than $3,500 of this amount may be in subsidized loans.

Second-Year Undergraduate
$6,500—No more than $4,500 of this amount may be in subsidized loans.
$10,500—No more than $4,500 of this amount may be in subsidized loans.

Third-Year and Beyond Undergraduate
$7,500 per year—No more than $5,500 of this amount may be in subsidized loans.
$12,500 per year—No more than $5,500 of this amount may be in subsidized loans.

Graduate or Professional Degree Students
Not Applicable
$20,500

Maximum Total Debt from Subsidized and Unsubsidized Loans
$31,000—No more than $23,000 of this amount may be in subsidized loans.
$57,500 for undergraduates—No more than $23,000 of this amount may be in subsidized loans.

$138,500 for graduate or professional students—No more than $65,500 of this amount may be in subsidized loans. The graduate debt limit includes all federal loans received for undergraduate study.Subsidized and Unsubsidized Loans | Federal Student Aid

 

I'm not talking about the obvious shit. (Obviously.)

You vaguely discussed the economic situation of slaves when someone was talking about people in 2013. I asked you a question as an attempt to see the relevancy of what you said. Don't accuse me of a diversion. Don't make yourself out as someone accommodating another's pointless ranting. Slavery was outlawed in America 150 years ago. You're trolling. Stop it.

As one example, through the '60s and most of the '80s, baby boomers were able to own a house raise a family on a single income on working-class wages. How feasible is this today?

Who has benefited the most from modern technology, financially speaking?

What's a "normal" economy? What's "the Obama" economy?

Since when are minimum wage jobs exclusively entry-level instead of also being only-level? Since when are minimum wage jobs exclusively based on performance instead of also being jobs where performance means shit? If one has a choice between three, four, five, ten, twenty minimum wage-jobs or jobs within $1 of minimum wage what kind of choice would you consider that? What about a choice of any job under $10 an hour (a living wage)?

 

mixedmedia

Thanks for sharing. The other side of that, of course, is that people are poor for no reasons other than their own — they're poor because they choose to be.