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How much bullshit do you really believe?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Lish, Aug 29, 2012.

  1. This thread wasnt about the whole osama/obama thing alone. It just so happened that i read the article, and i was using it as an example because of the amount of bullshitedness involved. OBL cowaring behind his wife, OBL having a gun, OBL firefight, OBL buried to islamic rituals etc etc. i dont understand why the US goes to so much trouble when we all know that the truth will eventually come out anyways

    It just pissed me off that so much spin was put on this whole story. And for what? If they'd said, yeah we couldnt get his body to a freezer so we dropped him in the sea, it'd been better than lie out of your ass and say you buried him according to islamic tradition.

    Baraka_Guru , there's no such thing as islamic sea burials. Its unheard of. Unless back in the old days you're out at sea and you need to dispose of the body. There's a saying that you shouldnt let two (glory?) suns set on a dead body. Perhaps the SEALS were referring to this when they said they they buried him in an islamic burial.


    whenever i see breaking news on CNN, i always go to Al Jazeera Arabic for the real story. At least its not sugarcoated there.

    In saying that, doesnt the Smith-Mundt Act forbid the US Government using such things on their own citizens?
     
  2. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Yes, but let's not forget who's been rewriting the US history books since she met and married Dick Cheney.

    Just being cheeky. The extent of what I know about Gen Patton is what I got from the movie and I fell asleep half way through it.
     
  3. Random McRandom

    Random McRandom Starry Eyed


    I'll grant you that it was quite a feat to turn the 3rd around in such little time, however, I think it's my own fault for not clarifying what I was really trying to say. Most people think that Bastogne was only taken because of this action by Patton. I say bullshit. A lot of people are also of the belief that Patton "rescued" the 101st Airborne who were more than beleaguered with winter conditions, low supplies and heavy fire from the Panzer divisions. That being said, I think and fully believe that the 101st could have held their positions and advanced as long as they were resupplied. I think you'll find many in agreement with this, including those who are still alive (if there are any). So yes, you're right that Patton's 3rd did a swell job in a short amount of time, but let's be honest, the real reason Bastogne was taken was because of the 101st. Sorry for not clarifying earlier.

    Lish are you seriously trying to say that Al Jazeera doesn't spout propaganda?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2012
  4. Cayvmann

    Cayvmann Very Tilted

    That is the nature of religion. The sheet is more important than the act preceding it...
     
  5. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    As for the wider topic of my personal experience with propaganda, I have a mixed track record.

    I tend to give certain sources the benefit of the doubt based on reputation and outside forces that hold them accountable. However, I don't ever cling to one thing or another and am prepared to toss out what I had previously believed if something comes to light.

    Ultimately, it comes down to holding certain things to various layers of context, precedent, history, likelihood, bias, motivations, responsibilities, expectations, and, ultimately, how the world works. In other words, it's as confusing as hell. One can't expect to know the full truth of anything when it comes to culture, society, and politics. You could say that I'm suffering from the hangover of postmodernism in that I'm highly skeptical that there is an objective truth in all matters, all the while hoping that the most enlightened of us are able to catch glimpses of such a thing as a way to steer us—blindly or not; kicking and screaming or willingly—towards it.

    The easier thing to do is to pick the low-hanging fruit of propaganda. The obvious stuff is obvious, but only if you're educated, skeptical, and are capable of thinking for yourself. It's easy to see a lot of what goes on in politics as propaganda, but unfortunately many don't see it. I'm always reluctant to call a spade a spade: propaganda is as propaganda does. I feel that propaganda is a loaded word, and its use as a label can make one seem extreme in their position. "It's propaganda, man!" It's a word with a storied history and it has a lot of baggage.

    But I can't really think of a better word to describe what it refers to. I mean, just look at its origin. It's beautiful:

    Italian, from modern Latin congregatio de propaganda fide ‘congregation for propagation of the faith’​

    Its 17th century origin actually refers to a committee of cardinals for the missions of the Catholic Church, but I have to admit that the modern meaning derived from this is rather fitting.

    The purpose of propaganda is to undermine reason to instill faith in something fallacious. It is a tool of those who abuse authority and responsibility.

    It may be a loaded word, but it's fitting. I will keep using it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2012
    • Like Like x 1
  6. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    I'm glad you clarified your standpoint, because I wasn't sure where you stood.
    Were you really believing it...or were you trying to make a point.

    Seems that you were really believing it.
    and my point was this from my previous postings....you are just as potentially libel and believing in bullshit as another.

    Who's to say, that this guy is telling the truth...and the adminstration is not.
    Both he and Al Jazeera Arabic where you get your "clear" sources are just as questionable as any US administration and government.

    Who's agenda is more TRUE??
    Perhaps they ALL have conflicts of interest.
    Perhaps they ALL fudge the truth to their advantage...and sweeping some disadvantages under the rug.

    Again, I'll say this...who cares how the terrorist overlord died??
    He's dead.

    And everyone can question how he died, how he was buried, and who was ultimately responsible all they want until they're blue in the face.
    He's dead.

    And you know what...I sleep more soundly at night knowing this.
     
  7. no of course not. But at least they let you see the blood and guts instead of snippits of some lame ass censored iphone clip.

    personally id rather see the blood and guts and know im being lied to, than not seeing it and still know im being lied to.

    the truth is usually somewhere in between CNN in Al Jazeera Arabic.
     
  8. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    So is this a blatant argument for the ends justifying the means?

    The official story is being challenged by alternative accounts.
    Who cares? He's dead.

    The official story has not been substantiated with any physical evidence or proof under the Freedom of Information Act.
    Who cares? He's dead.

    The lack of publicly available information in addition to the expeditious nature of the DNA testing and "burial" has spurred conspiracy theories regarding the legitimacy of the raid and killing of Bin Laden.
    Who cares? He's dead. (We just don't know the details.)

    If this makes you sleep more soundly at night, then that's great. I've read more than once that many don't feel the same way.

    Pentagon admits it has no photo evidence of Bin Laden's death (Includes interview)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Alistair Eurotrash

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    I don't think I ever had a problem sleeping while he was alive. Anyone who did was probably listening to the bullshit, anyway.

    There's loads of it. There are loads of people trained in it. There are likely 10-20 people in a room right now being trained on the arcane mysteries of PsyOps (which is just about telling the truth that works to your advantage, mostly - not the whole truth, or wholly truthfully, but a pinch of truth is kind of the essence of the dish).

    It's advertising. It's news. It's the selection of what's on the news agenda. It's sales and marketing. It's what makes us eat shit (and like it).

    Now, be good children and clean your plates.

    ** This message may, or may not, also be bullshit **
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, quite frankly...why don't you have some group come in, do a few terrorist actions on your people,
    fly a plane or two into your largest buildings...kill a few thousand of your nation's people within one of your most populated cities.
    Have a their leader claim responsibility...then plan to do a few more acts as described above...

    See if you don't feel better if the Mother Fucker is dead.

    Unless you're saying that my feelings and justification is irrelevant.
    Then our conversation is over.
    And you can bitch to someone else that it's "something is wrong" in the way he died
     
  11. Alistair Eurotrash

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Yep, because terrorism was invented when America was attacked.

    I kind of felt the same way at times, especially when some of your people were funding it in my country. There. I said it.

    Mind you, I was shocked by 9/11. Terrorism has been ever present in my life, though. I was born while my father was in a jungle fighting them, I lived through a war zone in the middle east dring my childhood and the IRA made life interesting, to say the least.

    It's not new. Nor is the bullshit.

    The War Against Terror (TWAT for short) is a great example.
     
  12. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    No, I agree...terrorism didn't start when only America was attacked.
    I feel the same in regards to the UK, France, Israel, Russia or anywhere else.
    Whether it was from outsiders or done by our own internal extremists. (ex: Oklahoma City)

    And I haven't agreed with it when certain administrations have supported groups that commit the same heinous acts.
    Nixon, Reagan, GW Bush...all those administrations happened to allow some terrible situations.
    I do not see that in Obama's with intent...Afghanistan is supposed to be stabilized, but it turns out that police forces and tribes are attacking each other.
    So I suspect that the unintended aspect are going to need to be withdrawn, since they can't play well with each other.

    Although, I'm seeing your location as the UK...so I can't recall when the US was supporting killing forces in the UK.
    Please clarify this event...unless you're talking about the IRA, which I didn't agree with.

    But that doesn't change the fact that removing a terrorist overlord from the planet is a better thing.
    And I would wish the same for most any country.
     
  13. Alistair Eurotrash

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Yeah, I was talking about the IRA. And we are in full agreement.

    Edit: Maybe. I still believe TWAT was spin.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2012
  14. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    I wouldn't because I would know it will be confiscated by the propaganda police upon arriving at my destination. If I'm military, I know how the game is played. If I don't, I'm not going on a mission to kill Osama bin Laden.

    Should make a sane person question who the bad guys are.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2012
  15. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Don't make this about me. It's not about me. Though, for the record, my brother did serve in a warzone in Afghanistan soon after it started up (as a military engineer, no less; high risk).

    I was, however, talking about Americans.

    No. I'm not saying any of that.

    If you want some help, I was most interested in whether you're okay with the ends justifying the means regardless of what the means are. Are you okay with the above issues I mentioned as performed and currently maintained by your government? What are your general opinions on the importance of the freedom of information from the perspective of the wider public?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2012
  16. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    I am blown away by the amount bullshit being pitched by speaker after speaker at the Republican Convention. It's astounding.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Levite

    Levite Levitical Yet Funky

    Location:
    The Windy City
    ^^^^Truth.
     
  18. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    I'm not blown away. As an American I have become quite accustomed to Republican bullshit. And it is all. bullshit.
    What I am blown away by is the apparent glee/apathy so many Americans have for selling our souls down this aforementioned river of bullshit.
    Pied piper came to town. People walked off the cliff. The end.
     
  19. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    I guess, what I am saying is, I expect ALL politicians to dole out the bullshit. I am just astounded by the new levels of bullshit I am hearing at this convention (including Clint Eastwood's suggestion that Obama took the US into Afghanistan).