Politics Ferguson

Had to look this one up - means 'vague', and kind of gives a 'carte blanche' attitude to threat. Any scope for overuse maybe?

 

Where have I implied that all police officers are violating constitutional rights?

And no one disputes that police officers have the legal authority to use force. In practice, though, police officers seem to have a fairly easy time getting away with excessive force (excessive as defined by the general public and as defined by policy).

Who thinks a couple dudes with sticks wailing on an unconscious person on the street is excessive? If you didn't raise your hand, chances are you are a cop. Because this very situation happened in a city where I used to live and while the citizens were like "That's fucked up," (except the local samcols, they were cool with it cause the guy getting beaten wasn't white) the police were like "What, should we not have done that?" Guess what? Their actions were in line with official policy.

So your policy is cool. Your case law is cool. But it doesn't actually mean all that much when subjected to daylight.

 

It means capable of being articulated.

one definition of articulate is to express an idea or feeling fluently and coherently.

What it boils down to is when I go to court and testify in front of a judge and jury, will I be able to show that I had reason for my actions?

Example: I stop a guy for weaving. He takes several seconds to react to my lights. His eyes are bloodshot and watery. He has the odor of an unknown alcoholic beverage on his breath. I see in plain view on the floorboard an almost empty bottle of fireball whiskey. I ask him for license registration and insurance. He produces a license and insurance. I have to prompt him for registration. I ask him questions about his evening. He gives me an old registration card. Then has to be prompted again for a current one. I ask him to step out of the vehicle. He holds onto the door and roof for support getting out, and then leans against the car while talking to me. I ask him to remove his hand from the car. he does, sways, then puts his hand back. I ask him if he will perform voluntary roadside maneuvers. He refuses and says a lawyer told him to never do that. I ask him for a voluntary preliminary breath test. He refuses that too.

Do I have probable cause to arrest him? Not on any one thing, but on the totality of the circumstances I do. But I better be able to articulate in front of a judge and jury why I developed probable cause based on the totality of the circumstances.

 

Thank you for acknowledging that not all officers are violating rights. Uhh, the officers I know would acknowledge that that is excessive. It is against the law in my state to not report an excessive use of force. I could lose my job, go to jail for that. And yes, horrible shit does happen under the color of law. My initial involvement in this thread came from people alleging the officer was guilty and based on what I have heard, he is not guilty. We shoot to stop. I have to fill out a use of force report for a pursuit. But not every department has the same policies. Our pursuit policy has been altered dramatically just in the past year.

 

The official stance of the police department in which the incident occurred was that the force used was not excessive and that it was in line with policy. So while you and your colleagues sound like exemplary officers, I don't know that you are accurate representations of the whole of police officerdom.

 

Well I've talked a lot about things are supposed to be, but yeah, reality too often falls short. We rail at lazy district attorneys who take ridiculous pleas on slam dunks we have gift wrapped for them. Judges who create new case law. Policy changes that tie our hands. It's still a job, and it is still a system run by imperfect people. Which is why we arrest, a D.A. prosecutes, a judge judges.

 

Here is another, same state, diferent day. I've personally disarmed a knifeman, why do they have to fill him with lead?

 

Congratulations on being a lucky fool.

You too attend the Strange Famous School of Man to Dog Bear Combat?​

Because a knife is a lethal weapon and law enforcement's escalation of force continuum doesn't require that they risk their lives wrestling someone with a Ka-bar. Raising a weapon or merely brandishing one in close proximity is an invitation to get shot.

Same goes for civilians with concealed carry permits. If you pull a knife/steel pipe/.38 snub on Joe Smith as he's getting into his car in a parking garage, he has every right to go to gun.

The cool part about the United States is that I don't have to be a victim because I can be better armed than would-be assailants.

 

If you are in Florida, a bag of skittles or popcorn will do.

 

Only if you're a "creepy-ass cracker."*

Protip: Don't be that.

* not sure if racist enough for this thread​

 

Really? I thought it was German tourists. And who's killing those overly polite visitors?

I bet it's all those Cubans.*

* not sure if racist enough for this thread​

​

 

Pussy. You go for the easiest option. Is it better to be a safe pussy or someone who has the resources to prevent murder?
Aren't you embarrassed?

'Because a knife is a lethal weapon', Shit! There's one in my kitchen! I'm guilty shoot me. Pepper spray disables assailants, tasers floor people, why do they have to fill him with lead?

'They can't risk their lives', is that carte blanche to take someone else's?

'Invitation to get shot', six times? One in the leg should normally do it. Why did they have to fill him with lead?

'He has every right to go for his gun' - this is the nub. Sideline reason, compassion, humanity, skill just empty a clip into him.




God guns and guts, good grief.
--- merged: Aug 22, 2014 9:33 PM ---

Can anyone spot a trend here? The answer to these shootings is more guns.

 

Surgeon, you are very lucky, and foolish. The sheriff of a low population county a couple hours away went to his local hospital to stop a man wielding a knife there. He got stabbed in the side, after attempting to pepper spray the guy. A pd officer and one of my brother troopers took him into custody in the parking lot. This was yesterday. He was shipped up to our large regional hospital for surgery. Apparently he had a bit of intestine hanging out.

 

I'm sorry to hear that. The officer was brave and doing his duty to the bet of his ability, We couldn't expect more.

I'm also sorry to see the use of lethal force becoming the first stop more and more often. It's a huge pity that our public servants seem to be more concerned with their safety than the populus they are employed to protect.

I was not lucky, I made the odds severely in my favour - oops favor - before disabling him, brain before bullets.

 

Wow. Just wow. I posted before I saw your response to plan9. So I should risk my life for a criminal, take the chance of leaving my twin girls without a father? You sir, have no idea of what you are talking about. Seriously. We don't shoot in the leg. We shoot to stop. A leg shot won't stop someone, and it's a pretty small target.

There was a shooting earlier this year the new troop over from mine. Two troopers were heading to a training, traveling together. They stopped to assist a motorist. One trooper gets out to check. The motorist pulls a gun out, puts a bullet in his arm and his hip. Trooper is backpedaling to try to get cover. Other trooper steps out, fires 14 rounds. Ten of which hit the target. Ten rounds to stop the threat. Again, you know nothing. And your arrogance considering your lack of knowledge is appalling.

 

I'm lucky to not know how America has become I admit.

 

Knives are just as deadly in other countries. In places like Mexico or the Philippines, where there is a knife fighting culture, thwy are more deadly. A bullet goes six inches into you, it leaves a channel 1/4 inch wide. A knife leaves a channel an inch or more wide. You can't grab a knife. Its silent. And it never needs reloading.