Complaining and Bitching About Guns

When I started high school, in 1973, about 43% of US households owned one or more firearms. We didn't have school shootings. We didn't have massacres in the news every 3 weeks.

In 2017, about 43% of US households owned one or more firearms. And now these events have become quite frequent.

Gun ownership hasn't changed. The types of weapons you can own are far more restricted. There were no background checks in '73 (understand that I am an advocate of background checks).

So what has changed? I don't know. To me it seems that our entertainment glorifies violence more. Our teenagers, who's brains are not yet fully formed, play games that create an operant conditioning loop to reward violence. We are desensitized to violence. We medicate problem kids and adults with mental health drugs, many of which can precipitate thought of harm to self or harm to others. To me it seems that in spite of all the "social" media, we are more isolated from one another than ever before. We do a shitty job providing mental health care to troubled people.

We have an attitude that anything goes and we have abandoned entirely the idea that we should all adhere to any kind of moral compass, and we are paying the price for it.

I don't think there are any easy answers. What we really need is intense study and rational debate and discussion to arrive at social policy to address this. I think we can take away all the guns and they'd just run kids down in the parking lot, or find some other way to act out their anger and hate.

 

I went to high school about the same time.
We didn't have shootings like these though we did have a couple of revolver based incidents.
We also had bomb scares.

This page makes for some interesting reading.

List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia

Kind of shows that we've has shootings for a while.
They have gotten to be way more efficient.

Here's a list from 73-77 which I'm assuming would have been your high school years. I took out the SLA attacking the school board members as that's probably an outlier as well as college events, though they

January 26, 1973 - Richmond, Virginia - 17-year-old Wayne Phillips, was killed when he was caught between two youths who were fighting in the hallway of Armstrong High School.

January 17, 1974 - Chicago, Illinois - 52-year-old elementary school principal, Rudolph Jezek Jr., was killed in his office by 14-year-old Steven Guy, a former student said to be angry about being transferred to a social adjustment center.

March 22, 1974 - Brownstown, Indiana - 48-year-old Jessie Blevins, athletic director at Brownstown Central High School, was fatally shot in the school parking lot by a 17-year-old student waiting for him.

October 4, 1974 - Kent, Ohio - 19-year-old McKeesport student, Ray D. Gilmore, was wounded in a scuffle with two men in his third floor campus dormitory room. 26-year-old Benjamin F. Goodman and 22-year-old Carl Bell, who were not students, had their .32 caliber pistols taken and were wrestled to the floor by other students.

December 30, 1974 - Olean, New York - During a two-and-a-half-hour siege, 18-year-old honor student, Anthony Barbaro, the best on his rifle team, killed three adults in and around his high school and wounded eleven other persons.

February 24, 1975 Penns Grove, New Jersey - 24-year-old David Gary killed the 33-year-old Reverend Thomas Quinlan, inside a classroom at St. James School. Quinlan was the school's principal. A teacher was also wounded.

March 18, 1975 - St. Louis, Missouri - 16-year-old Stephen Goods, a bystander, was killed during a fight between other teens. Three youths were convicted for the homicide.

September 11, 1975 - Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Student James Briggs killed fellow student Randy Truitt at Grant High School, wounding several others.

February 12, 1976 - Detroit, Michigan - Intruders entered Murray-Wright High School, shooting and wounding five students after an apparent dispute over a girlfriend of one of the intruders.

July 12, 1976 - Fullerton, California - The gunman, 37-year-old Edward Charles Allaway, was a custodian at the California State University, Fullerton library. Allaway killed seven people and wounded two others in the library's first-floor lobby and at the building's Instructional Media Center (IMC), located in the basement.

November 10, 1976 - Detroit, Michigan - 46-year-old Al Lewis, killed his estranged wife, 46-year-old Betty McCaster, as she was teaching thirty-six 6-and-7-year-old students at Burt Elementary School.

April 7, 1977 - Whitharral, Texas - High School principal, M. O. Tripp, was killed on the front steps of the school by 17-year-old student, Ricardo Lopez, for unknown reasons.

We have this many in a couple of months now and the body counts are way higher but the problem seems to be similar, just sped up.

 

I think it's the feeling of having no control on these situations. So do what is easiest...demand gun control. Anything will help with the pain of no control.

 

I'm going to start out by say that I don't consider Wayne LaPierre as a true representative of the NRA even though he is the executive vice president.
Far too many of his speeches are totally off the wall and I'm sure that most members are not that batshit crazy.

Which brings us to his latest speech.
He used just about every dog whistle term for antisemitism that is possible.
Nice to know that his solution to the problems of this country is to hunt us down.

There was a time when Joe McCarthy used these kinds of speeches to tear up the US government.
"The army hired Boston lawyer Joseph Welch to make its case.
At a session on June 9, 1954, McCarthy charged that one of Welch's attorneys had ties to a Communist organization.
As an amazed television audience looked on, Welch responded with the immortal lines that ultimately ended McCarthy's career: "Until this moment, Senator, I think I never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness."
When McCarthy tried to continue his attack, Welch angrily interrupted, "Let us not assassinate this lad further, senator. You have done enough. Have you no sense of decency?"

I only wish there was a Joseph Welch to call out Wayne LaPierre.

The NRA Has An Anti-Semitism Problem

 

No bitching here for the moment.....I am truly inspired by the students (and teachers) from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida who have organized a March for Our Lives, March 24 in Washington D.C.

March for Our Lives



And have inspired students around the country (and beyond) to organize events locally:

March For Our Lives - London Sat 12:00 PM UTC · 2,549 guests U.S. Embassy London London, United Kingdom

March For Our Lives Philadelphia Sat 9:00 AM EDT · 7,494 guests Philadelphia, Pa

March For Our Lives Sat 10:00 AM EDT · 644 guests Doral, FL

March For Our Lives - Columbia, SC Sat 10:00 AM EDT · 4,705 guests South Carolina State House Columbia, SC

March for Our Lives Houston Sat 9:00 AM CDT · 13,179 guests Tranquility Park Houston, TX

NYC - joining the March For Our Lives Sat 10:00 AM EDT · 62,501 guests New York, NY

March For Our Lives - Toronto Sat 10:00 AM EDT · 1,753 guests Toronto, ON, Canada

March for Our Lives Raleigh Sat 10:00 AM EDT · 4,700 guests

March for Our Lives-Democrats Abroad France Bordeaux Sat 3:00 PM UTC+01 · 49 guests Bordeaux, France

March For Our Lives - Miami (Official) Sat 10:00 AM EDT · 5,615 guests To Be Determined (Possibly Soundscape Park)

Cleveland March For Our Lives Sat 10:00 AM EDT · 10,632 guests Public Sq, Cleveland, OH

March for our Lives - Charleston, SC Sat 10:00 AM EDT · 1,488 guests Charleston, SC

March For Our Lives, Youngstown Sat 10:30 AM EDT · 817 guests Wick Park, Youngstown

March For Our Lives - Ann Arbor Sat 11:00 AM EDT · 10,668 guests Ann Arbor

March for Our Lives - Cincinnati Sat 11:00 AM EDT · 3,879 guests Cincinnati, OH

Minnesota March for Our Lives Sat 10:00 AM CDT · 24,154 guests Minnesota State Capitol Saint Paul, MN Get Tickets

The March for Our Lives - Metro Detroit Sat 11:00 AM EDT · 8,609 guests 1340 E Atwater St, Detroit, MI

March For Our Lives Long Island Sat 11:00 AM EDT · 3,035 guests Huntington , New York

March For Our Lives - Columbus Official Sat 11:00 AM EDT · 17,562 guests Ohio Statehouse Columbus, OH

March For Our Lives - Columbus Official Sat 11:00 AM EDT · 17,562 guests Ohio Statehouse Columbus, OH

March for Our Lives - Fort Worth, TX Sat 10:00 AM CDT · 6,194 guests Tarrant County Courthouse, 100 W Weatherford, Fort Worth, TX 76102 Fort Worth, TX

March for Our Lives-Gainesville Sat 11:00 AM EDT · 3,555 guests Bo Diddley Plaza Gainesville, FL

March for Our Lives Sat 12:00 PM EDT · 2,454 guests City-County Building Portico

March For Our Lives - Northampton, MA Sat 12:00 PM EDT · 2,130 guests Northampton High School Northampton, MA

March For Our Lives - Lancaster City Sat 12:00 PM EDT · 3,588 guests Lancaster, PA

March For Our Lives - Irvine Sat 9:00 AM PDT · 348 guests City of Irvine City Hall Irvine, CA

March for Our Lives South Orange County Sat 9:00 AM PDT · 235 guests San Clemente Public Library San Clemente, CA

March For Our Lives - Sioux Falls Sat 11:00 AM CDT · 272 guests Downtown Sioux Falls SD

March For Our Lives Chicago Sat 11:00 AM CDT · 35,255 guests Downtown Chicago

March for Our Lives Boise, Idaho Event Sat 10:00 AM MDT · 3,062 guests Idaho State Capitol

March For Our Lives: Montpelier Sat 12:00 PM EDT · 5,818 guests Vermont State House Montpelier, VT

March For Our Lives - Albuquerque, NM Sat 10:00 AM MDT · 4,754 guests Albuquerque Civic Plaza Albuquerque, NM

March for Our Lives: Boston Sat 12:00 PM EDT · 68,669 guests Boston Common Boston, MA

March for Our Lives- Grand Rapids - Official Sat 12:00 PM EDT · 5,061 guests Rosa Parks Circle Ice Rink Grand Rapids, MI

March For Our Lives - Orlando Sat 12:00 PM EDT · 14,526 guests Lake Eola Park Orlando, FL

March For Our Lives SGF Sat 12:00 PM CDT · 2,163 guests Park Central Square Springfield, MO

March For Our Lives - Seattle Sat 10:00 AM PDT · 28,981 guests Cal Anderson Park Seattle, WA

March For Our Lives Long Beach Sat 10:00 AM PDT · 2,026 guests Bixby Park Long Beach, CA

March For Our Lives Santa Cruz Sat 10:00 AM PDT · 3,305 guests Santa Cruz, CA

March for Our Lives - Abilene Sat 12:00 PM CDT · 329 guests City of Abilene, Texas- City Hall Abilene, TX

March For Our Lives - ATLANTA Sat 1:00 PM EDT · 15,352 guests Georgia State Capitol Atlanta, GA

March for Our Lives-Rhode Island Sat 1:00 PM EDT · 5,002 guests Rhode Island State House Providence, RI

March For Our Lives - Dallas Sat 12:00 PM CDT · 11,161 guests City of Dallas - City Hall Dallas, TX

March For Our Lives Stockton Sat 10:00 AM PDT · 628 guests Martin Luther King Jr Plaza Stockton, CA

March For Our Lives Palm Springs HS Official Sat 10:00 AM PDT · 1,767 guests Palm Springs Stadium

March For Our Lives SLC Sat 11:00 AM MDT · 9,783 guests Utah State Capitol Salt Lake City, UT

March for our Lives: Portsmouth, NH Sat 1:00 PM EDT · 3,636 guests Market Sq, Portsmouth, NH 03801, United States

March For Our Lives Kansas City Sat 12:00 PM CDT · 14,156 guests Mill Creek Park Kansas City, MO

#MarchForOurLives Los Angeles Sat 10:00 AM PDT · 44,728 guests Pershing Square Los Angeles, CA

March For Our Lives - Austin Sat 12:00 PM CDT · 13,839 guests Austin City Hall Austin, TX

March for Our Lives San Diego Sat 10:00 AM PDT · 9,924 guests TBD

March for Our Lives Portland, OR Sat 10:00 AM PDT · 20,087 guests Portland, OR

#MarchForOurLives Phoenix, Arizona Sat 10:00 AM MST · 15,292 guests Arizona State Capitol Phoenix, AZ

March For Our Lives Ventura Sat 10:00 AM PDT · 2,183 guests Plaza Park Ventura, CA

March For Our Lives Newark Ohio Sat 2:00 PM EDT · 395 guests Licking County Courthouse Square Newark, OH

March For Our Lives - Ithaca Rally Sat 2:00 PM EDT · 2,788 guests Bernie Milton Pavilion Ithaca, NY

March For Our Lives West Palm Beach Sat 2:00 PM EDT · 10,390 guests Clock Tower 423 S Ocean Blvd, Palm Beach, FL 33480

March For Our Lives San José Sat 11:00 AM PDT · 10,403 guests San José City Hall San Jose, CA

March for our Lives Santa Barbara Sat 11:00 AM PDT · 1,376 guests De La Guerra Plz, Santa Barbara, CA 93101, United States

March For Our Lives Sat 11:30 AM PDT · 2,873 guests Downtown City Plaza Reno, NV

March for our lives..weho Sat 12:00 PM PDT · 174 guests West Hollywood Sheriff's Station West Hollywood, CA

March For Our Lives Rochester Sat 3:00 PM EDT · 7,178 guests Washington Square Park Rochester, NY

March For Our Lives Sacramento Sat 12:00 PM PDT · 11,797 guests California State Capitol Sacramento, CA

March For Our Lives Sat 12:00 PM MST · 312 guests Courthouse Square, Prescott Prescott, AZ

March For Our Lives - BEAUMONT, TX Sat 3:00 PM CDT · 85 guests Beaumont, TX

MARCH FOR OUR LIVES - Colorado (OFFICIAL) Sat 2:00 PM MDT · 38,785 guests Denver's Civic Center Park Denver, CO

March for Our Lives San Francisco Rally Sat 1:00 PM PDT · 30,520 guests Civic Center San Francisco, CA

March For Our Lives Fresno Sat 1:00 PM PDT · 1,396 guests Fresno, CA

March for Our Lives San Luis Obispo Sat 2:00 PM PDT · 3,313 guests County of San Luis Obispo Government San Luis Obispo, CA

March For Our Lives - Orange County, California Sat 2:00 PM PDT · 5,042 guests Centennial Regional Park Santa Ana, CA

March For Our Lives - College Station Sat 6:00 PM CDT · 850 guests Texas A&M University College Station, TX

more every day:

March for our Lives

 

Ask the folks demanding stronger gun controls to support, i.e. pay additional taxes for, the programs necessary to reduce the chances of mass shootings.

Now ask voters in general.

In both cases the response would be "No."

BTW/FTR I don't think tax & spend is the solution to every problem.

 

45 and his evil second in command are fundraising off the shooting at Parkland.
A letter was sent out yesterday.
Fuck these guys so much.

Donald Trump Fundraises Off Parkland Shooting Tragedy, Touts His 'Safer Schools' | HuffPost

 

Trump probably sees it as business opportunity; having a well-funded war chest is business.

/notsupportinghisactions

 

I disagree with you. I think enough people understand that the status quo is not working. People spend money on what they think is important. And people are finally realizing that this is important.

 

People will support gun controls laws because that's a relatively cheap (I used cheap intentionally rather than inexpensive) option.

Ask them to provide the funding for more & better trained school counselors, mental health professionals, help for dysfunctional families, etc.

 

Does anyone here think arming teachers is a good idea?

 

Not any of the teachers I know.

 

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/80ixyy/florida_senate_committee_approves_proposal_to_arm/


Fucking lol, America.

Sorry guys, I just can't deal with your country sometimes.

 

Polls suggest support for reasonable gun control by a majority of gun owners.

February 20, 2018 - U.S. Support For Gun Control Tops 2-1, Highest Ever, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds:

• American voters support stricter gun laws 66 - 31 percent, the highest level of support ever measured by the independent Quinnipiac University National Poll, with 50 - 44 percent support among gun owners
  
• Support for universal background checks is itself almost universal, 97 - 2 percent, including 97 - 3 percent among gun owners.
• 67 - 29 percent for a nationwide ban on the sale of assault weapons (this certainly includes many gun owners)

​

2/23: Widespread Support Exists for Stricter Gun Laws… Gun Reform Major Factor for Midterms (Marist poll):

• 71% of Americans, including 58% of gun owners, agree the laws governing the sale of firearms need to be stricter.

​

GOP poll in Florida shows strong support for assault weapons ban:

• A majority of Floridians support a ban on the sale of assault weapons, including a majority of Florida gun owners, according to a poll conducted by this week by the Florida Senate Republican leaders. ( but they wont include it in a bill)
  
• In addition to overwhelming support for an assault weapons ban and opposition to "arming teachers," the other components of the proposed legislation outlined by Galvano have overwhelming public support. Those measures include:
  • A three-day waiting period for all gun purchases.
  • Banning bump stocks — the devices used to turn a semi-automatic weapon into an automatic one.
  • Enhanced background checks.

​

 

Gun owner here. Even carried an ar15 for work as well as an m16 when I transferred to Golden. I wish those had never been introduced into the civilian market. That is a truly dangerous gun. My Remington 700 fires a 30.06 round that is deadly. They are commonly used as sniper rifles by thousands of departments. But it is bolt action with a 4 round internal magazine. Good for hunting and sniping, not for putting lots of lead downrange. An ar15 throws a much smaller, lighter, less expensive round. I could fit 3 30 round magazines in a cargo pocket. Weighs about 6.5 lbs unloaded. Goes right through standard body armor (like most rifle rounds). I don't have answers, and it's not purely gun laws that will make a difference, but steps need to be taken. People need to realize this is important.

 

Why Trump's idea to arm teachers may miss the mark

Research from the university where I work and professors with whom I took classes for my MBA.

 

I dont know that anyone expects banning assault weapons alone to be "some kind of panacea." We do know that when the assault weapons ban was in place (1994-2004), mass shootings were lower than the preceding 10 years and the the ten years after the ban was allowed to lapse.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-violence-experts-say/?utm_term=.aafdd8def64b

We also dont know exactly how many such weapons are on the streets today (estimated 6-9 million) because federal law prohibits a gun registry to collect such data.

We do know the AR15 has been the weapon of choice in at least ten of the most recent mass shootings and while a ban wont remove those 6+ million such weapons from the streets, there is growing support for not allowing the number of such weapons to continue to increase by millions.

But we also know that gun control alone is not the answer. Of course, a more comprehensive, multi-disciplinary approach is needed, including a national commitment to address mental health issues and the availability of accessible and affordable mental health (and substance abuse) treatment. The ACA was a significant step in that direction with requirement for such services as a guaranteed benefit in non-group health plans (and expanded Medicaid) yet efforts continue to dismantle the ACA and these benefits.

No solution will "fix" the problem overnight, but more and more Americans now say it is time to act!

Another poll:

Gun control support surges in polls

Support for stricter gun laws has spiked in polls conducted after the fatal South Florida school shooting, hitting its highest level in at least a quarter-century.

Roughly two-in-three Americans now say gun control laws should be made more strict in the wake of the murder of 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, according to a number of polls, including a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll which shows support for stricter gun laws among registered voters at 68 percent, compared to just 25 percent who oppose stricter gun laws.

It’s common for support for gun control to tick up in the aftermath of mass shootings. But there appears to be a clear trend in all the post-Parkland polling: This time is different. The percentage of Americans who want more restrictive gun laws is greater now than after any recent shooting.

Much of that increased support comes from Republicans, according to Kyle Dropp. Morning Consult’s co-founder and chief research officer.

"Republican support for tougher gun laws is at its highest point since Morning Consult and POLITICO began tracking the issue," said Dropp. "In this week's poll, 53 percent of Republicans indicated they supported stricter gun laws, compared to 37 percent [of Republicans] who said the same following the Pulse nightclub shooting in June 2016.” .....more​

The other significant difference, one can hope, is that with the students from Parkland, FL (and around the country) leading the call for action, this will not be the typical short news cycle issue, but one that finally leads to action.

That action certainly wont be a return to a ban on semi-automatic weapons or even raising the age nationally to 21 (same as handgun), but IMO, any step in that direction, however small, is a step in the right direction.

edit:

Other positive actions, however small, will occur w/o a change in law.

Dick’s Sporting Goods CEO says company will halt sales of assault-style rifles, set under-21 ban for other guns