Bye Pointless Ann...

winnah!!!winnah!!! chicken dinnah!!!

 

Don't hate him because he's making fat stacks, yo!

 

I for one appreciate you sharing those thoughts. Interestingly enough, I asked someone privately a few days ago if they knew if you and Lordeden were doing ok since I hadn't seen much of you for a few weeks. You two are some of the people that I've enjoyed interacting with here.

My comment would be to ask where the vibe is coming from that no one responds if it is outside of PA. Of the twenty threads currently on the first page of the Politics forum, every one has a reply. Eight of them have well over 100 replies. Sixteen of the twenty threads (80%) have nineteen replies or more. To me that is pretty good for a board of this size. In Life and Sexuality you can go back almost thirty threads before you find one that got less than double-digit replies. The vast majority have dozens with several having hundreds of replies. Those are by definition probably our two "heaviest" forums, right? By a cursory glance everyone who is sticking their toe in the water is getting feedback, and quite often they are getting dozens or hundreds of replies. Even in General Discussion you have to go back almost 100 threads to find one lacking a reply, and most get double digit replies, especially when there is a well thought out OP.

As the_jazz has already proven with my "pink helmet" thread that he split out, some of us are just chiming in to PA when we could be making new threads. I am going to try to adjust that somewhat. By the new threads created in the last two days it looks like some others are going to make an attempt as well. I hope that the same is true especially of those who aren't fans of PA. As I said earlier, take responsibility for being what you want TFP to be and I think if you are consistent with it you'll be reasonably pleased with the results (to clarify, that was a general "you", not targeted at anyone specifically). I hope that those who have navigated away from here due to PA shoulder some of the responsibility and start coming back around, because it is enjoyable to have them. Maybe one of the suggestions I made, or a modification of one of them, will allow PA to be less the heart of the discussion and less of an annoyance for those that don't care for it. Most of all I hope no one just throws up their hands in frustration and heads home with their ball, because we all suffer in that scenario.

 

Ooooh, touchy, touchy, touchy. Questions about money are never "completely moot." Though he may choose not to exercise it, he who pays the piper gets to call the tunes, and rightly so. Or, he can walk away and see if someone else will step up. If the money question were moot, you would hardly be so touchy about it, right?

This is personal enough that it is well outside that "bastion of intelligent discussion and respectful disagreement" that you refer to your post #9.

 

---

-+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+- The TFP's finances are not up for discussion in this thread. Period.

 

Look guys, this is quickly getting derailed here. I've know the_jazz long enough that while I'm not particularly interested in performing apologetics for him (nor do I think he needs me to) I do understand that he's making a point in his own prickly way.

We're bringing this into the community because it's something that affects the community. This is how we operate. I don't think anyone thinks the membership of this forum are a burden. We, the admins and moderators, are the members of this forum. We've also been tasked with some additional responsibility, but at no point since the Great Overthrow has this place really resembled a dictatorship in any meaningful fashion.

You know what goes on in the staff forum? Nothing. Jack shit. We ban spammers, we bring potential problem threads to each other's attention and we step in to help mediate when members get into disagreements, as sometimes happens. We do what we can to keep this place tidy and pleasant for everyone, including ourselves. And sometimes we may feel a little unappreciated or overburdened and sometimes that comes out in ways that are less than ideal because yeah, we're people too. What isn't there is some dark cabal overseeing the way the forum operates. We don't make arbitrary decisions about what is or is not acceptable. This is your forum every bit as much as it is mine, or cynthetiq 's or the_jazz 's. It's up to you guys to make sure that it stays healthy and vibrant as much as it is us. It's not appropriate to point fingers and that's not what I'm interested in doing, but I think it's pretty clear that there's a consensus that we have a problem, and that it needs to be addressed. It's not fair for the staff to make this kind of a decision arbitrarily, nor is it fair for the member base to expect that kind of burden to be handled by staff. This is a community, and that's not how we work.

So let's everyone take a deep breath and just try to focus on the topic at hand. Please and thank you.
--- merged: Oct 18, 2013 at 8:28 PM ---
Alright. I've come back and I've actually read everything so I feel like I'm in a position to make an intelligent comment now on the actual topic of discussion now rather than this meta-moderation crap that I'm honestly not all that interested in doing (something something go play with my servers).

People are attached to Pointless Announcements and I get why. But it's kind of like fast food. Sometimes you eat fast food. And you know it's bad for you, and you know it's probably going to give you indigestion, and blah blah blah.But it's quick and easy and you're tired or you've had a rough day or you've got a big to-do list so you just do it anyway. But then sometimes when you feel like fast food you go into the kitchen and start cooking, because you know you should. And once you get started and whip something up in thirty minutes and realize that you can make a better meal for cheaper and have it done before the delivery guy could be at your door anyway. And then you feel kind of dumb for wanting fast food.

I don't know if I'm still making sense. I'm pretty tired and I haven't actually eaten so I'm pretty food focused right now.

The point is, I think a lot of the time we come in and we post in Pointless Announcements. And you know, we don't have time and we don't really know what to say and everyone else is so much smarter and what could we add anyway so we just go where it's comfortable. And yeah, that means we're not spending time that we really could quite easily spend in another thread. Because, really? How long does it take to express your opinion on the correct date for Christmas decorations to go up? How long do you need, how much thought are you putting into an opinon on keto? I bet you already have an opinion, and I bet you could express it cogently in five minutes or so. Even a wordy son of a bitch like me can manage a few good posts per day, and I proof read everything.

So here's my proposal, guys. I'm going to suggest that we can take the security blanket away on a trial basis. I can lock the thread and take it away. Not delete it, but just make it invisible. And we can leave it like that for a couple of weeks and see what happens. And, y'know, if it doesn't work out, we can always just go back to the status quo. No harm done.

I'm also wondering if we could see about doing something for more content generation. Like, maybe we can do a topic of the day thing, where members will sign up and moderate a mini-thread on a topic of their choice? I don't know, I'm spitballing. I'm going to see if I can come up with some ideas for new threads because I suck at starting them myself.

 

I'm thinking that just bringing the entire topic to the membership's attention has already adjusted the status quo in a positive direction.

I don't think asking if it should go away, getting ~80% of the votes saying some variation of "no", getting several other practical suggestions for minimizing the impact that are less drastic than taking it away (even temporarily) completely, then taking it away anyway is the best course of action. If that is what was going to happen, I think we as members are better off just being told how it's going to be instead of being asked for our opinion then ignoring the clear majority response. Even the majority that are asking for it to be kept seem to be almost unanimously in favor or ok with an adjusted version of it, and many of us have actively shown that we are willing to try to post outside of PA in a more substantial manner. Why not let that play out for a few weeks first instead?

I would keep the "take it away completely" option (even temporarily) as a much later/last resort. JMHO.

 

I feel like (and let's be clear that this is just my opinion and represents neither a decision nor the staff consensus) if we dont' do something to actually change things, it's not going to stick. Like, we'll all agree that yeah, we need more posts in other places, and we'll do that for a few days, maybe even a week or two, and then we'll just fall back into old habits. That's why I want to move it. But y'know, I'm willing to try it and maybe just loop back in a bit. I'd be okay with that.

 

I'm not suggesting we do nothing. I'm suggesting, if it is felt action is needed, try one of the "in between" options (or a combination of them) for a while first.

"Useless Chatter" sub-forum that doesn't show up in "Recent Threads" and move PA, and any other appropriate threads (I mentioned several earlier that might qualify) into it.

and/or

Allow people to "opt out" of that forum comletely.

and/or

Ask moderators of forums to hit a quantifiable goal of new discussions started.

and/or

We all try really hard (yeah, you are right, this will not maintain the pace of the last 36 hours, but it might stay above what it has been in recent memory) to drive better discussion in separate threads.

and/or

Whatever other random ideas people have made or the staff might be throwing around.




Now go get yourself some food. Or, head over here and I'll feed you some of the chili that's now on the stove.

 

Maybe my perspective is off, but I don't think anyone is getting worked up. I think the discussion in general is actually kind of partially fulfilling what everyone is complaining is lacking.

I know part of the reason that I'm replying so much is because I love these types of discussions the same way some people love politics, social issues, economics, or finding content for the various themed threads in Posting Games. One of my primary hobbies the last 10-12 years has been running message boards, mostly large and volatile ones. This is the first time in a LONG time that I've been on the user side of one of these discussions, and I'm actually enjoying the back and forth. It's a bit of a new challenge/experience for me to express my feelings without knowing I can force my way in the end anyway. Not that I'm debating just to debate, but that I am enjoying taking in everyone's thoughts and inputs and trying to figure out what I would do if it were my call. If anything, from how I see it, people actually choosing to leave the board because one thread and its perceived effects was annoying them so much is a stronger reaction than having the discussion that is taking place currently in here. I'm not saying it is a wrong action by any means, but I think it is a stronger one. I think that there is definitely merit on both sides of the argument, and that's why I think a choice somewhere in the middle is best for the board. But for me personally, I am not worked up about it, I just have a habit of over-communicating when it comes to crafting message board policy. I used the term "message board nerd" earlier without any real thought behind it, but it is kind of true in the same way other people nerd out over other various topics.