Assaulting a fascist is self defense

I think it may be important to note that the nazis are not just the "disenfranchised". According to this article, economics has very little to do with it.

"As for the argument that economic distress and lack of jobs has driven white Americans to join the movement — the disenfranchised and the poor — Zeskind firmly disagrees, saying poor white people comprise only a small percentage.

"The white nationalist movement looks like a demographic slice of white people in the United States," he explains.

"And economics doesn't have much to do with this. It's about race."

The new white supremacist movement isn't caused by Trump — and it's only getting worse

Of course, If every area of the american system improved it'd be great for everyone.
Unfortunatley, If every one of these nazis was employed, had access to good health care, and life got better for them, etc, under the Trump leadership this will only strengthen their movement. Giving them what they want, while saying "its ok, your allowed to spread your disgusting views", doesnt make sense to me. It's like giving a dog a treat after doing a trick. Getting to their core and changing their beliefs on race is the true answer for a long time solution to stop white supremacist views.

I believe we have to start making these groups uncomfortable, very, very uncomfortable.
The new white supremacist movement isn't caused by Trump — and it's only getting worse

 

That's his opinion, but the demographics say otherwise. That is not to say there aren't other drivers, certainly there are, tribalism is a big factor, but those without time on their hands are substantially less likely to participate in these activities. My personal experience as a special forces operator is that most terrorists see themselves as disenfranchised in some way, have strong loyalty to a tribe or other type of group (usually ethnic) and are usually otherwise unemployed.

 

I wouldn't say that a lot of them are poor. They might have "self-imposed economic hardship" by the mistakes they made in their lives or from accidents, but I worry that stereotypes are also driving peer pressure to conform to being a conservative. A lot of them own houses and land, can buy trucks, and have the money to buy guns and ammo. And then you have the media that provides a distorted sense of reality by hyper-focusing on small issues and ignoring the bigger trends. And opinions and the reaction to those opinions that become "news".

It hasn't worked in a long time. When the right-wing media machine will spin anything to make those "peaceful protesters" look like the enemy and degrade them, it is a big problem. If Trump shot Colin Kapernick on 5th Avenue, there would be 34% that would support Trump no matter what. I would bet, that Trump would have still got just as many votes in the last election too. Because, even if Trump was a murderer, he still wasn't Clinton, and Kapernick was being "anti-police or anti-American".

The answer isn't for the other side to get violent though, that just makes the job of the media spinner easier, because they "deserve" it then. But, at some point, organizing hate groups and changing cultural attitudes that we have fought wars over (just because those people don't like the outcome of those wars), has to be prevented. Publicity and attention is what the White Hate groups want, that way they can recruit more members and gain more power. And the media, some of which is run by the far-right groups themselves, is also helping to push an agenda. The bigger question is what are we being distracted from about what is going on, and why they want to change the public's opinion.

 

This sums up my feeling about "Punch a fascist"



There are very few real Nazi's to punch, most of the people assaulted have not been.

I'm generally not a conspiracy guy, but this climate is being created on purpose in my opinion with a lot of money.

 

The guy who made the video is Chris Ray Gun.
He's the one who turned Laci Green from a feminist to a red pill nut job.

The Urban Dictionary actually has a definition for Chris Ray Gun:
A phrase used to refer to a single person who exists as a subset of "Schrodinger's Douchebag" whereby the person making the bigoted statements retreats from their stance and obscures their politics with the excuse that they were "just joking," except that in the case of the "Chris Ray Gun" the individual does so continuously, usually for a living (i.e. as their primary source of income).
"Chris Ray Guns" make blogs, articles, internet videos, and even music or other art with the express intention of using edgy and humor to defend reactionary political stances and ridicule progressive stances.
A necessary quality of the Chris Ray Gun is that they reinforce bigotry, usually by using slurs as insults while simultaneously arguing against civil rights, all because they think they're being funny.

"Have you seen the latest Chris Ray Gun video?"

"Yeah, that guy has some problems."


So in case you missed it, I don't think much of the video.

 

I have no idea who Chris Ray Gun is, though it doesn't really matter - I agree with the content of the video. Who the creator is, or what his/her history may be, isn't a factor for me.

Similarly, I never understood why people's liking of music changes based on the artist's personal life or political ideology. How does this affect the content in any way?

 

It depends.
Am I going to like Josh Whedon's stuff less now that I know he was a complete hypocrite and an asshole to his wife?
Meh, I'll still enjoy it but it will be tarnished.

It's funny I'm more willing to put up with someone who is straight about being who they are then someone who tells the world they are woke and then proves to be a complete misogynist or racist.
In the case of Chris Ray Gun his shit is pretty straight up.
He has a fan base that is red pill alt-righters.
Not my thing at all, but I have to give him points for honesty.

 

Exactly the same sentiment here.

 

So ad hominems

See you don't agree with him. Perhaps you need to punch him? Laci Green as I would say instead of "red pill nut job" but "getting a fucking clue". This was before her red pill...



She's learning that the other side isn't 'racist, misogynist pieces of shit" ... therefore she is a "red pill nut job".

You know like me, or my wife, or 60 some million Americans. This is why I gave up discussing politics in general but TFP in particular.

 

I've been thinking about this post and the posters that are all about punching nazis. I would like to help you fulfill your dream of punching nazis. I now present "Eden's Tour of White Hate in North Carolina", tickets to the tour are free but donations are accepted. Water and snacks will be provided.

First, I need you to fly into CLT (Charlotte International Airport) and I'll meet you at the lower level of arrivals. [The free ticket only applies to the tour, not transportation] @arkana does have a free plane ticket tho, if he could read this I would gladly pay for him to come. Everyone else, you are on your own with travel.

Once we get in the car, I'll ride you around to the Civil War monuments still standing in the small towns along the way to my home town to get you riled up. Please do not get out of the tour car until we reach the final stop.

We won't need to ride around looking for KKK/WS/Nazis, I'm taking you to my house and street. I live in the poorest area of my city where the low income of white and black mix. Mostly black population, but many many poor whites. Don't worry, I'm only "ghetto adjacent" so don't worry about that.

Then we go walking, not far so don't worry about to much traffic. On my road alone, there are 2 houses with Rebel flags flying proudly in the wind. 4 houses down is the first one, so you can go knock on his door (I believe an elderly white guy lives there) and you can punch him. Rebel Flag = Hate = White Supremacist = Nazi, so it will be ok. Just punch him, don't introduce yourself. Hopefully the two other huge white dudes won't be home, so you might get away with it if he gets tangled up in his oxygen tank cords.

So far so good. Then we move down to the house 10 houses down with a rebel flag. This guy looks like a fighter and a meth head, so good luck on that. Knock, punch and run as fast as you can. There is a southern baptist church near me, try running there. I would recommend stretching first.

If you make it past the first 2 houses, we can wait for the skinny meth head with nazi symbols on his chest to walk to the local bodega to get his rose stem glasses to smoke out of and beer. I'd recommend waiting on the return trip as he will be loaded down with stuff he doesn't want to lose, giving you the surprise attack. Be warned, I've watched a meth head get tased three times in a row before they went down. This won't be an easy fight. I'll be rooting for you.

If you make it down my street without going to the hospital (we have two really nice ones in my city, I'd recommend Frye first), then we can start moving closer to the ghetto epicenter. Lots of horder houses, rebel flags and poor income families. We can start knocking on doors and you can ask if they are nazis. Remember tho, if you meet any black people ask them if they are involved in the "Nation of Islam" which the SPLC lists as a Hate Group in my state. Then punch them too. Hate groups have no color.

After a few streets, we can retire to the local biker bar and you can do as you please. Just for the atmosphere of listening to people talk about loving Trump and hating [insert ethic race]. Be sure to punch anyone who talks in these terms.

I also know where some KKK members gather, so you can go punch them. Recommend taking a gun, they will have them. [Eden Tours do not provide guns or lessons, but can take you to the local Wal-Mart to buy one]

If you are still breathing and not in ICU at Frye, I'll take you to my favorite BBQ place. If not, I'll bring you a plate.

[Return travel and medical expenses not covered, also I will just be filming and not helping with fights]

 

It's a little late but for those who don't know a Nazi group in Quebec City (Canada) who wanted to do a protest match against both provincial and federal ministers got surrounded by a group of close to 300 counter protesters. The Nazis were forced to barricade themselves in the building they first gathered in as they were greatly outnumbered and violence was escalating. I think some of the counter protesters went too far but i'm glad so many people showed-up and stood again discrimination, oppression and racism. If anyone is interested here is a news coverage:

Counter-protesters swarm far-right La Meute protest in Quebec City

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 24, 2017 ---

It better be a dam good BBQ if i travel that far!

 

I'm always up for going back to the BBQ place. Got one about an hour east of me I want to try with ya. Drive on down.

Canada? Yeah, not that good. I love NC BBQ but it's better in other places.

 

You're funny!


Seriously though, you (or anyone else) couldn't pay me enough to even talk politics within your country, let alone going door to door punching nazis on their property. You are correct, I don't have a death wish, as well I would be completly ineffective at stopping them physically. It would be hysterical! Also, I just wouldn't want to upset some people that believe foreigners visiting your country shouldnt "be shooting their mouths off" about stuff that doesnt involve them. Thats fine, I respect that.

Yet, I still believe that:

- the actions of this woman in the video, are not unprovoked.

-punching nazis is not equivalent to firebombing abortion clinics. Last i checked, your country has never offically declared war on these clinics, doctors, and nurses at anytime in history.

-the notion that people trying to stop fascism are the real fascists, is a fallacy.

-409 399 of your milliary men and women died fighting nazis, let alone the numbers of allied forces and all the groups that the nazis tried to exterminate. At one point, all allies were punching nazis, in one way or another. Was that wrong? Should we have said instead that, "gee, you know, these guys should have free speech rights. Best to let them say their thing and just look the other way. Also, I wouldnt want to loose my free speech, slippery slope'n all"? In my opinion, punching a nazi is actually a lot nicer than most of the things the nazis did and still advocate to this day.

-punching nazis should be illegal. No disagreement there. It'd be a free for all at these nazi rallies. However, nazi groups should be illegal as well. ISIS and Nazis are different groups in many ways, but what they do (or have done) and still promote is no different. Namely, mass murder (genocide), among other things. Neither group should be allowed to continue functioning, in my opinion.

I dont believe everyone on the right is a nazi. Its just not true, plain and simple. Although, I feel the right has a real problem. They look at their alt-right group and consider it "just a flesh wound" when in reality, its a fucking cancer. They are deluding themselves that the alt-right is small, generally powerless and completly controlable. Given half a chance, the alt-right will consume a good portion of the right, if left unchecked, and they just might end up electing someone that will make Trump look like Mr. Rogers. Then you'll have alot more to worry about than the loss of free speech and punching nazis.

 

Hi @Katia:

The West never declared war on these Nazis. It was a war on the Axis powers, which were being extremely aggressive in their expansionist policies and thus threatened the national security of most major powers, though it may have felt like a war on the Nazis - especially within the population and the rank-and-file members of the military - since painting Nazi ideology as "the ultimate evil needing to be vanquished" was an easy way to galvanize public support for war. In fact, there was a sizeable amount of Nazi supporters in North America during that time. It was not an issue of free speech, but long-term survival.

Other than the neo-Nazis in Germany, these Nazis we're talking about are mainly caucasian members of their respective countries. They have no relation with the Nazi regime, as most of them are simply people who felt disenfranchised and/or lived in poor socio-economic situations when they grew up and saw these Nazi groups as way to feel better about themselves by claiming innate superiority over other races.

It's a complex situation that needs to be addressed properly, and these political tie-ins with WW2 don't help the issue. Though I don't disagree on making official Nazi groups illegal.

In the same vein: IS groups should be made illegal as well, but their supporters shouldn't be attacked physically. It's the youth in similar conditions as the white youth mentioned above that get sucked into these groups, which is where society needs to focus its attention.

 

Hi @Remixer

Ok, well if you want to nit pick, thats fine. I am not as eloquent with words as you. Yes, they went to war against the axis of powers (which the nazis were a big part of) and yes, there were nazi supporters within the U.S., but Im pretty sure that they weren't allowed to have rallies and recrut members in a public space, like the neo-nazis are allowed to.

Im not going to sit here and try to go toe to toe with you on the who, what, where , when, why. of WW 2. The reason I draw a parallel with the neo nazis today and the nazis from ww2 is because they glorify and worship these nazi leaders from WW2 and a lot of their ideologies. I didn't call them nazis first, they called themselves that.

Of course, technically they are different people. However, by saying they are two different groups and dismissing it outright is like looking at a great white shark and a great white shark pup, then proclaiming that the pup isnt a shark because its not identical to the older one. Their both fucking sharks.

As well, when I was talking specifially about free speech and ww2 nazis, I was trying to illustrate is how outrageous it is to allow that kind of organization to hide behind those free speech laws.

You want to stop people from punching nazis? Remove their organization from public spaces. That would be a good start, but only a start.

 

@Katia:

I agreed that official Nazi groups should be banned, so we have at least some common ground.

My problem with the hard stance taken against the "Nazi problem" (for lack of a better term) is the little thought put into addressing the root of the issue. Instead, it's just "kill those motherfuckers" like @POPEYE has displayed earlier. This approach is not constructive, and it's proven to be extremely ineffective in solving anything in the past century alone.

We've fought a world war against Nazis, and won. We had a cold war and several conflicts with the Communists, and it's been a mixed bag. We've been in Afghanistan since 2001 to fight the Taliban/various terror groups, and while we initially won it's a much murkier image now. There's always a threat to our "way of life".

Engagement is the key word here in the domestic realm. Small initiatives are carried out by youth/social workers throughout the West and it's proven an effective tool, though our societies have not widely adopted such an approach. Here's an interesting read on Muslim youth as an example. I have never heard of proper initiatives for White youth, but I doubt there is anything out there.

It's fine to draw a clear line in the sand against the Nazis/Extremists and enforce it. Engagement slowly destroys the misguided sentiment from the inside. Militancy and punching Nazis, however, just drives them further into their corner and makes the problem worse. Keep going like this and the situation will get much worse in the USA than it will get better.