Are there any boxing fans on TFP?

Yeah, Chris left Marvin Hagler off his list.

"Hit Man" Hearns would hit so hard he'd break his own hands. Imagine the damage he was delivering! I remember Duran's "No mas!"

There is no one currently boxing that sparks any interest for me.

 

--- merged: May 5, 2015 10:42 AM ---

In my quoted post question two is relevant to question one, which is why I didn't mention Marvin Hagler. The fact that nobody recognizes Wilfred Benitez makes my point.

Wilfred Benitez:
--Holds the record for being the youngest world boxing champion. Seventeen years old, IIRC.
--Was KOd in the 15th round by Leonard, after giving him fits for 14 rounds. Chickenshit Leonard wouldn't give him a rematch because Benitez had the boxing skills to make Leonard look bad.
--Lost a majority decision after 15 rounds to Hearns in what was one of the best chess match fights ever.
--Duran beat Benitez over 15 rounds in a close fight. Many people felt that the aggressive Duran would totally destroy him; they very much underestimated Benitez' boxing skills.
--Fought well against many great and very good fighters; the list of fighters that he fought is very impressive. Unfortunately, like many fighters, he kept fighting long after his boxing skills had faded.


I was a big fan of Hagler, saw many many of his fights, even paid to see the Hearns V. Hagler on CCTV (this was way before seemingly everyone had cable/satellite, & PPV was in its infancy).

And since y'all thought that I'd forgotten Marvin Hagler, here's a couple of questions (don't look them up and then pretend like you knew the answers):
Easy--What three names was he known by as a boxer?
Difficult--What was so unusual about his full name?

 

Answers:
Easy--Marvelous Marvin Hagler.
Difficult--He had his name legally changed to Marvelous Marvin Hagler.

Hagler, easily the dominant world middleweight champion, had to demand a million dollar payday for a title defense against the top ranked challenger. While Ray "The Manipulator" Leonard was paid over a million dollars for non-title bouts against nobodies.

 

This might've gotten more attention in the Pointless Announcements thread, but this thread needed the cobwebs removed.

I recently watched three partial fights on YouTube, Tyson's KO losses to Evander Holyfield, James "Buster" Douglas, and Lennox Lewis.

Part of me sympathizes with Tyson because of things beyond his control--his childhood, his bipolar condition, and other negative factors.

Part of me sees him as a street thug who got the failures he deserved after being on top but still a street thug.

-------------------------

Pacquiao V. Mayweather II.

Would anyone really want to see this, especially if it's PPV (which it certainly would be), after the 1st fight? IMO Manny, even fully healthy, would yet again end up chasing & not catching Floyd for another 12 boring rounds.

I hope that Manny is smart enough to see that his glory days are behind him, and retire.

My dark side would love to see Floyd stick around well past his prime, and turn into another Roy Jones, Jr. My better side would like to see Floyd step away while he's on top.

-------------------------

Maybe this will generate some discussion . A few weeks back I saw some MMA fights on free TV (sorry, I don't recall who fought). I was amazed to see a lot of striking and very little wrestling.

 

i enjoy boxing but sometimes it gets boring like everything. the only problem with boxing is when they have it on ppv and the main event lasts 2 rounds i feel like i got screwed.

i have learned to like the mma fights as well. those keep my intrest

 

My experience is nearly opposite. I admit to seeing very few MMA fights, and PPV is not an issue because we only have free TV.

Most of the MMA matches I've seen ended really early by KO. Some of those guys are great wrestlers, but IMO many them seem to have glass jaws. I'm not talking OMG! strikes (punches and/or kicks) that would damage a brick wall, I mean shots that don't appear to be thrown very well and only half land. Certainly some of those "weak"strikes are misleading, but equally certain some (I didn't say all) very good MMA fighters can't take a punch.

I do watch fights on a couple of the Spanish language channels. The problem is most matches feature a "favorite" fighter with a good record going against an "opponent" with a so-so or lousy record. Sometimes the "opponent" can actually fight, sometimes they can't fight but manage to go the distnace, and many times it's apparent that the "opponent" goes down intentionally.

What I hate to see is the "favorite" winning a decision they don't deserve. Or celebrating after looking like shit against a lousy opponent. I watched one guy run around the ring several times, smiling, jumping on the ropes, waving his arms at the crowd, etc. The problem was he spent the first eight rounds just barely outpointing the other guy, and the last two rounds pretty much running for his life. His opponent was slow, flat-footed, & totally telegraphed every punch. If I had been his corneman I would've been tempted to ask him, "WTF are you celebrating? This bum made you look like shit."

For some of the fights on one of the Spanish channels the promoters used to bring in well-known former champions way past their prime, such as Jorge Paez (73-14-5) and Ramon "Yari Boy" Campas (103-17-3), and have them fight guys with fewer than 10 pro fights. Guess who won those "matches."

------------------

Mentioning Jorge Paez.......

I have never liked him. Gaudy trunks, stupid hairstyles, too much clowning* & showboating, no power, and he kissed his biceps.

*He was, literally, a professional clown and semi-acrobat. His family owned a circus, and he performed with them from an early age.

With that said, if a fighter wanted to study how to win rounds without overexerting themselves, they could learn a lot from watching vids of Paez's fights. He would start strong, throw some really nice combos during the first 30 seconds to get the judges attention, stay away from his opponent until mid round, fire off some nice combos again for maybe 20 seconds, then stay away until the last 30 seconds when he would again land some nice combos to finish the round.

But he also had a couple of title fights as defending champ against Troy Dorsey where all he did was lay on the ropes. In both fights it appeared that he knew he couldn't & wouldn't lose--a split decision win and a draw, respectively.

 

Not rambling, good info!



No doubt the accumulative damage can be far greater in MMA because the wide variety of ways a fighter can get hit, and where they can get hit.

I would think, and my knowledge is obviously limited:
--That many martial arts disciplines are more about defense and counterstriking or takedowns, while others are more aggressive.
--Some fighters with wrestling backgrounds coming from a MA disciplines that don't teach aggression would need to make adjustments to be more aggressive and a successful MMA fighter.

With all that said, I'm sure that there are MMA fighters who don't have great chins, but do very well using their grappling skills. Being a boxing fan for 40 years, it's taken me a while to appreciate the grappling aspect of MMA fighting. And I admit that when the grappling goes on forever with neither fighter able to do much it gets boring.

 

Last night I saw a fight, live on TV, featuring Juan Diaz, a local fighter who is a former world champion. He took about 2.5 years off, after losing three of his last four fights, and has now had six comeback fights in his attempt to become top-rated and hopefully obtain a world title fight.

The good news:

Diaz fought really hard and won by TKO in the ninth round.

His opponent, Fernando Garcia (30-6-2 going into the fight), had the perfect style for Diaz--flat-footed and not a big puncher. He was chosen to make Diaz look good. Diaz has problems with boxers who can move.; in one of his comeback wins he looked like shit against a guy who constantly moved.

The bad news:

Diaz took a lot of punches, even though he clearly out-punched his opponent. If Garcia was a harder puncher it would've been a different fight.


At 32 Diaz isn't "too old" to be a viable contender, possibly even world champ. I don't see him doing well against legitimate contenders or champs, i.e. fighters who have proven they can box and punch, against serious opponents, not cherry-picked ones.

Diaz also had rotator cuff surgery about this time last year. On his left shoulder; Diaz relies heavily his left hook.

Diaz is being set-up to become a stepping stone fighter. A win over him--former world champion, good record, aggressive style--will look good on paper even after Diaz is way past his prime.