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an interesting moral quandary... is there karma when it comes to big corporations?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by highjinx, May 30, 2012.

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  1. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    Relevant:
    Sanity, karma... whatever.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
    Plan9, Jun 1, 2012
    #21
  2. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    This basically strikes at the core of what's fundamentally wrong with the Western view of karma. There are some other views of karma that I cannot accept as well, specifically the ideas of previous lives or other cosmic forces as are found in some older Buddhist and Hindu traditions, respectively.

    My view is closer to the view of Stephen Batchelor, who explains these problems of determinism below:



    I'll reiterate that my view of karma is as a personal force. Our personal misery and our achievement of happiness are based on our choices in thoughts and actions in response to phenomena of cause and effect.

    My view of karma is tied to personal responsibility in response to the reality in our lives.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
    Baraka_Guru, Jun 1, 2012
    #22
  3. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    Seems karma gets the Catholic Guilt treatment a lot in the Great White West.
     
    Plan9, Jun 1, 2012
    #23
  4. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    It's also a kind of fantasy of wish-fulfillment:

    "Oooh, that asshole who dumped me just got laid off! Hey, asshole, karma's a beeeeyaaaatch! LOL!"

    "Hey, karma, I know a few people you missed! K-thx!"

    Etc.

    The irony, of course, in my view of karma is this: These people need to deal with their own damn karma, obvs!
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
    Baraka_Guru, Jun 1, 2012
    #24
  5. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    Well, not that Mystical Eastern Karma is really any different than burning bushes, The Secret or any other there-is-something-greater-in-us-other-than-our-colon voodoo. Any time a white person tells me I'm "believing in something wrong" I have to chuckle a little bit at the whole scene.
     
    Plan9, Jun 1, 2012
    #25
  6. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    The mileage varies. The views depend on the tradition and the religion. Even in the case of Buddhists who believe in previous lives, they at least know the difference between the universe giving you shit vs. your thoughts and actions in response to cause and effect. They still believe in causality as it affects you personally. Karma operates on the level of personal action in response to observed phenomena. Despite the more metaphysical aspects of Buddhism (despite the Buddha's original teachings), much of it has a real basis in psychology.

    Buddhism is nothing like The Secret. They're opposite in many ways. One believes in causation, while the other encourages "victim-blaming, political complacency, and a culture-wide 'flight from realism' by suggesting failure is the result of not trying 'hard enough' or believing 'firmly enough in the inevitability of your success.'"
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
    Baraka_Guru, Jun 1, 2012
    #26
  7. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    So--going all Jesus zinger for eine minuten--karma believes in me even if I don't believe it?
     
    Plan9, Jun 1, 2012
    #27
  8. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Karma can't believe in anything. It just is. It's basically action in response to cause and effect.

    We all deal with karma every day. Some better than others.

    It isn't a mystical force. It's something you observe and respond to, for better or for worse.

    Try this.

    The next time you respond to something shitty happening to you, think back. That process of observing the shitty thing and then responding to it (for better of for worse)...that's the process of karma.

    If you go, "Shitballs!" and then rage-quit whatever you're doing, followed by chewing people out for the rest of the day and thinking that bad things always happen to you, that could be considered a negative karmic reaction. You should deal with that because bad things will always happen to everyone. It's life. Dwelling on that instead of dealing with it is a bad karmic state.

    If you go, "Okay, that was bad. No need to get angry though. That doesn't help any. Okay, let's see what I need to do to get through this." That's a more positive karmic action.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
    Baraka_Guru, Jun 1, 2012
    #28
  9. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    No, I get it. It's just that the term composure sounds like "faggy French" whereas karma sounds significantly more ninja.

    I'm cool with all this shit, man. I don't know the name of my inner flow vibe, but I know I've got it by the balls, brother.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
    Plan9, Jun 1, 2012
    #29
  10. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Well, not quite. Karma is a process, a sum of actions, responses, etc. Composure is a state of being. Actually, Buddhists tend to use the concept of equanimity, which is kind of like composure under stress or during a difficult situation.

    Also, equanimity comes from the motherfucking Latin, which, of course, is pretty bad ass.
     
    Baraka_Guru, Jun 1, 2012
    #30
  11. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    Man, I need to take a class on this stuff. Uh, I thought the idea was to achieve the state of being independent of stress.

    I mean, I need to remain composed when I receive my me?-no-way! free iPad as well as when I drop it and it breaks.

    Or am I way off?
     
    Plan9, Jun 1, 2012
    #31
  12. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    The idea is being able to deal with stress. It's knowing that life is an experience of constant change. There will be times of pleasure and times of pain, the former will end and the latter is inevitable no matter how much you avoid it. Leaning too much in one direction and/or the other will only cause you further grief.

    If you want to look into this further, I highly recommend the book Buddhism Without Beliefs, written by the same bloke in the video I posted above. It explains the philosophies/practices of Buddhism from an atheist perspective.

    In this simple but important volume, Stephen Batchelor reminds us that the Buddha was not a mystic who claimed privileged, esoteric knowledge of the universe, but a man who challenged us to understand the nature of anguish, let go of its origins, and bring into being a way of life that is available to us all. What the Buddha taught, says Batchelor, is not something to believe in but something to do, and as he explains clearly and compellingly, it is a practice that we can engage in, regardless of our background or beliefs, as we live every day on the path to awakening.​

    ​
    The idea is that Buddhist wisdom applies to everyone, not merely those who believe in theologies. This is a practical guide to the core teachings as they apply to us today.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
    Baraka_Guru, Jun 1, 2012
    #32
  13. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Out of curiosity:

    Where was "If Found contact Tyler (xxx)xxx-xxxx" written? On paperwork included or was it directly on the IPad itself?

    Does it appear as if it was originally Tyler's IPad, coming back after being repaired or more likely a new IPad he'd just purchased?

    If it was a repair, why would this promotional website be handling repaired IPads? Unless promotional, refurb, new, and repaired IPads all go through the same shipping and handling location which is possible.

    Any chance Tyler got the same deal as you through the website and they were sending him a better model than you? If that's a possibility, I don't know if I'd feel too awful about keeping it. (cheeky bastards giving some recipients 16's and others 64's in the same promotion - criteria being nothing more than luck of the inventory draw)

    Have you tried calling Tyler? It's doubtful that he got the 16gb intended for you. Screw ups are never that clean. More likely he got another 64gb without his name and phone # on it. In that case, the only one(s) "out" in this scenario would be Apple or the promotional website. How bad would I feel about keeping it in this particular scenario? Probably not too bad....yet.... believing I was fortunate enough to be getting a free IPad to begin with, I would let someone know about it, as you've done, and return it if they wanted it back......
    .......Because there is the possibility they (either the website or Apple - who may ultimately be one in the same) may let you keep it, especially if the screw up hasn't affected the intended owner (Tyler). Transactions around promotional campaigns generally occur outside of customer billing departments who are held responsible for accounting for every penny.

    Then again, there is also the chance that you will return the 64gb IPad to them and have to hound them to send you the correct one. These things have a strange way of falling into the wrong hands and down an abyss if there's any interruption in the process.

    If you decide to keep it, you are far more likely to suffer from a guilty conscience over it than you are the effects of karma.

    --- merged: Jun 2, 2012 3:00 AM ---

    I like to think that "no good deed goes unpunished" is the exception to the rule despite how often it appears to be the rule.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2012
    Joniemack, Jun 1, 2012
    #33
  14. highjinx

    highjinx "My phobia drowned while i was gettin' down."

    Location:
    venice beach
    it was engraved on the ipad itself. the shipping slip said it was supposed to say "thanks highjinx for helping blah blah blah.


    it wasn't a repair it was a freshly minted sealed ipad from the apple store itself.


    the screwup wasn't on the end of the website gifting me it was the apple store they ordered from.



    i actually went another route. i was intent on returning it, but i wanted to change my receiving address. when i was on hold with apple it occurred to me to ask them if it was obligatory that i actually return it.... i.e would the website that gifted it to me be on the hook for more money. they replied that they couldn't tell me to return it or not, but there were zero consquences for not doing so.

    so i kept it haha. bona fide no karma win-win.



    MASSIVE UPDATE...

    so after talking to the apple store and telling them im going to keep it, i get a smart cover the next day. i figure they'd already sent it out, seeing as i gave them my information when i called them.

    well... fast forward 2 weeks and i get a fedex sig notice. i figure it's a flashlight i ordered a week ago and sign off on it.

    i get a box the next day. IT'S ANOTHER IPAD. the 16gb one i was supposed to get originally. so now i have 2 ipads and a smart cover and i've been completely transparent through the whole process. part of me is saying to return the 2nd one, but i'm currently sitting on it to see if anyone misses it or is even going to try to contact me to get it back. the bigger part of me at the moment is to chalk it up to the apple store employing morons that send out RMA's before they get the returned item and/or don't process a cancellation when one's given to them on the phone.

    that said, i don't think i'm going to crassly sell this extra on craigslist. i'm probably going to gift it to my parents who would never use one otherwise especially since my mom originally turned me on to the site.
     
    highjinx, Jun 19, 2012
    #34
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