F&N 5-7 Pistol -- Do they Make a Civilian Issue? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Stargazer01 · 09-29-2003, 12:44 AM

Thats all i want to know. Does F&N make their 5-7 pistol in a civ issue, or do i somehow have to become law enforcement?

thanks guys and gals!

JimmyTheHutt · 09-29-2003, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stargazer01
Thats all i want to know. Does F&N make their 5-7 pistol in a civ issue, or do i somehow have to become law enforcement?

thanks guys and gals!

No such luck, my friend. The only way one of those can be purchased are if the purchaser is a Law Enforcement Organization. This means that even a police officer, on their own, cannot legally own the 5-7. Damn nice gun though....

Veritas en Lux!
Jimmy The Hutt

pointfourfive · 09-30-2003, 10:32 AM

The ammunition is also extremely restricted, so even if you found one on the street, you'd still have a tough time shooting it.

Beltruckus · 09-30-2003, 12:34 PM

why so hard to get guys? what makes it special? have an extra large clip or something, would that even make a difference?

kel · 09-30-2003, 12:48 PM

Cop killers.
The bullets are effective at piercing kevlar...

[EDIT] Actually I have no idea what the official legal and or corporate reason is. I just assumed this off the bat.[/EDIT]

Moonduck · 09-30-2003, 05:12 PM

No such animal. LEO only.

I really don't know that penetration has that much to do with it. There are plenty rounds available normally that have as good a chance, or better, of punching through today's vests. It may be a manufacturer's decision. It may also be because the round might be classified as rifle ammo and thus not legal in such short length and pistol configurations.

cluster · 09-30-2003, 10:16 PM

part of the reason is that they dont make < that I know of> ant 10 rds mags.. only seen the 20 mag version...

someone did a ballistic geletin test with one.. other then thier abilty to priece kevlar the test showed not much diffrent from a .22 as far as ballistics in soft tissue..

the LEO restrition is a comp policy.. not a .gov one.

if you can find non armour pireceing <ss190 i think they are> and a ten round mag.. you are good to go I believe...
the AP rounds.. i dont think they will ever be readily aviably anyway due the hangun AP round ban on civies..

cluster · 09-30-2003, 10:20 PM

here is one for sale... seems the guy does have 10 rd post ban mags after all.. I dont believe all 5.7 ammo is AP so a civie MIGHT be a possiblity since their is not .gov law againt it.. just a comp policy..

dont think the round is classified a rifle rd ,, hell the p90 is a subgun not a rifke... and I havent seen anything esle that takes this rd..

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/i...uery=retrieval

Lebell · 10-01-2003, 12:03 AM

http://www.fnmfg.com/products/fivesevn/fivesevn.htm

Five-seveN Pistol

Advantages:
The Five seveN Pistol is the companion weapon to the P90 sub-machine gun. The Five seveN is an easily concealable double action pistol with a larger, 20-round magazine capacity. A maximum use has been made of composite materials in the frame and slide to result in an extremely light weight, 1.7 pound, design. The 5.7x28mm ammunition has the capability of penetrating body armor at extended ranges. This new ammunition features a lead-free projectile to eliminate environmental concerns. NATO STANAG classification for the ammunition is currently underway.

Technical Data:
Length:
8.2 inches

Height:
5.4 inches

Weight:

-Empty
1.4 pounds
-Loaded
1.7 pounds

Magazine Capacity:
20 rounds

Penetrate PASGT vest
300 meters

Penetrate PASGT helmet
240 meters

Penetrate CRISAT vest
100 meters

Suggested Price:
(Law Enforcement agencies only- 5.7 x 28 caliber weapons are not available to the general public)

Five-seveN D.A.: $585 Available!
Five-seveN D.A.N.S: $702 Available Mid 2001

kel · 10-01-2003, 09:56 AM

http://www.fnmfg.com/lawenf/57ammoinfo.htm

"BATF regulations: All components of this system are tightly regulated by BATF. The P90 (NFA, Class III weapon) can only be sold and registered to a law enforcement agency. The Five-seveN pistol is slightly different. The first sale, which requires the pistol to be legally imported into the US, requires the same procedure as the P90. A BATF Form 6 is needed which the chief or the second in command must sign. The pistol can then be removed from the Custom Bonded Warehouse and shipped to the agency. The ammunition is controlled in much the same manner, an approved BATF Form 6 is required then the ammunition can be shipped direct to the agency."

Stargazer01 · 10-02-2003, 12:16 AM

So really all i need is a ClassIII FFL and i'm good to go... Great :P lol.

Seriously though, thanks alot I knew someone would have an answer

Lebell · 10-02-2003, 12:22 AM

NO.

As I recall, there is a national ban on civilians owning armor piercing handgun ammo and that is what the ammo for this gun is specifically designed to do.

So I think you're still screwed.

Lebell · 10-02-2003, 12:30 AM

Well, I was partly right.

Apparently you can by SS192 (the hollowpoint 5.7x22 training round, no penetrating core), just not the SS190 armor piercing stuff.

Of course, it is a little expensive...

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976328128.htm

Description: WTS new Winchester prodiction SS192 is the new designation for the training ammo for the FNP90 submachine guns and FiveseveN pistols. We were just given approval to sell this ammo to anybody, including civilians. This is hollowpoint ammo and is not armor piercing. $25 per box of 50 rounds or $460 per 1000 rounds.

Stargazer01 · 10-02-2003, 12:43 AM

Yeah but the gun still has to be shipped to a Goverment or LOE, or someone with a ClassIII FFL for me to purchase (if i can?) Correct??

cluster · 10-02-2003, 04:38 AM

here is my 2 cents.. FFL/SOT can only sell to dept/agencys... and indivdaul LEO's with dept letterhead.

what happens to the individual LEO bought pistols.. are they then able to trasferable with the 10 rds mags? < since it is thier property ?>

I know the AR15 LEO only marked lowers can be sold to civies < must be kept post ban> after the intinal LEO purchase.. <same hoops to jump thru as the FN >

the pistol MIght have a chance of bieing in civie hands...

the P90 will never be .. unless the MG ban of '86 is lifted < crossing fingers>

biznotch · 10-13-2003, 09:09 AM

wow... whats FFL, class I, II or II mean? I mean I think its some kind of level of authority which permits you to carry different types of guns...I guess, an anyone xplain this to me?
That Five-Seven is a beauty...but I just love HK handguns better(ergonomically speaking).

G5_Todd · 10-14-2003, 08:34 AM

hmmm will have to look into this

cluster · 10-15-2003, 11:56 AM

for sale to civies right now.
here is the ammo and the weapon and a dealer that well sell to YOU.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_5_7_ss192_ammo.html

http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_fiveseven.html

guess the question has been answered ,, " Yes you can buy them."

proving that the "Ban" on these is simply FN company policy and not the law.

< didnt re-read thread so dont know if this has already been posted

>

edited to add :

well thelaww does ban the over 10 rds and AP ammo but the ss192 and the 10 rd mag is the way around that.

Tiger69z · 10-20-2003, 03:19 PM

WTF

hehe dude i coulda sworn that guns couldn't be sold online unless it was shipped to some Federal firearms license approved place or whatever?

G5_Todd · 10-20-2003, 05:43 PM

this i found thru the link funished in the above post

Quote:

The Five-seveN Pistol is the companion weapon to the P90 sub-machine gun. The 5.7x28mm ammunition has the capability of penetrating body armor at extended ranges, yet has less felt recoil and is less prone to over-penetration. The Five-seveN Tactical is an easily concealable single action pistol with a 20-round magazine capacity.

pros i saw

high capacity magazine
stated low recoil
stated less prone to over penetration
penatrating body armor at range

now what are the cons of this 5.7x28mm ammunition.....as compared to a 9mm

or in general comparing the gun to a glock 26

althou the gun is very expensive the thought of owning one has been trolling thru my mind....

what exaclty would less prone to over penetration mean...that its not going to exit the person u shoot at and hit someone down range......

im only familiar with the guns i have been trained with....

kel · 10-20-2003, 06:11 PM

Consider the cost and availability of 5.7x28mm ammunition.

G5_Todd · 10-21-2003, 12:31 PM

just called my local dealer...he carries it but hasnt sold one yet lol he said......

he said he couldnt even give me a price off hand and would have to get back to me.....

only thing he said i would need is permission to posess the high capacity 20 round magazines...but that wont be a problem...

Bowlcut · 10-29-2003, 07:26 PM

i just like the ergonomics of the gun, and well the high cap of them. ok yea "cop killer" bull crap....but thats stupid. id still like to see some balistics on that bullet. know its a decent round, other than hard to get here in america. and that is one sexy pistola

blockmaan2000 · 11-14-2003, 06:27 AM

Will verify, you can own one of these ... for like $1300. You can also buy the HP ammo, just not the "real" AP round. BTW any of the rounds produced will pierce a level II vest. Check out a guy named CMMG on ar15.com

block

Bikes Are Sweet · 11-30-2003, 03:49 PM

that is one fine pistol...

Stargazer01 · 12-01-2003, 11:47 PM

G5_Todd · 12-02-2003, 12:33 AM

1300 bucks your getting ripped off....i found one for 800 and even thats a bit high.......

600 is a good deal

Stargazer01 · 12-02-2003, 12:03 PM

600 for a 5-7 NEW? where?

kel · 12-02-2003, 01:03 PM

Shoot it before you buy it...
You may find out it just sucks for you.
Everyone wants a USP but I can't stand shooting it.

Moonduck · 12-02-2003, 04:02 PM

*shrug* I liked the USP .40 that I bought (for $325, sweet deal!). Thing is, my Mom liked it better, so I gave it to her. Seems odd that such a bulky gun would be comfortable in her small hands, but she loves it. Who am I to say?

I do agree with shooting something before you buy it, especially if it is an oddball like the FiveSeven. It sacreligeous to say this, but I can't stand the 1911-A1. I blew a heckuva lot of money on different models and calibres trying to find one that "fit". Once I realized that none of 'em do, I was much better off.

Personally, I think this gun is oddball, and the scarcity of it puts me off. I also cannot say that I can really appreciate the concept.

09-29-2003, 12:44 AM	#1 (permalink)
Stargazer01 Tilted	F&N 5-7 Pistol -- Do they Make a Civilian Issue? Thats all i want to know. Does F&N make their 5-7 pistol in a civ issue, or do i somehow have to become law enforcement? thanks guys and gals!

09-30-2003, 12:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
Beltruckus Psycho Location: Salt Lake City	why so hard to get guys? what makes it special? have an extra large clip or something, would that even make a difference? __________________ The most important things are the hardest things to say. They are the things you get ashamed of because words diminish your feelings. Words shrink things that seem timeless when they are in your head to no more than living size when they are brought out. -Stephen King

09-30-2003, 12:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
kel WARNING: FLAMMABLE Location: Ask Acetylene	Cop killers. The bullets are effective at piercing kevlar... [EDIT] Actually I have no idea what the official legal and or corporate reason is. I just assumed this off the bat.[/EDIT] __________________ "It better be funny" Last edited by kel; 09-30-2003 at 03:07 PM..

09-30-2003, 10:20 PM	#8 (permalink)
cluster Upright	here is one for sale... seems the guy does have 10 rd post ban mags after all.. I dont believe all 5.7 ammo is AP so a civie MIGHT be a possiblity since their is not .gov law againt it.. just a comp policy.. dont think the round is classified a rifle rd ,, hell the p90 is a subgun not a rifke... and I havent seen anything esle that takes this rd.. http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/i...uery=retrieval Last edited by cluster; 09-30-2003 at 10:24 PM..

10-01-2003, 12:03 AM	#9 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	http://www.fnmfg.com/products/fivesevn/fivesevn.htm Five-seveN Pistol Advantages: The Five seveN Pistol is the companion weapon to the P90 sub-machine gun. The Five seveN is an easily concealable double action pistol with a larger, 20-round magazine capacity. A maximum use has been made of composite materials in the frame and slide to result in an extremely light weight, 1.7 pound, design. The 5.7x28mm ammunition has the capability of penetrating body armor at extended ranges. This new ammunition features a lead-free projectile to eliminate environmental concerns. NATO STANAG classification for the ammunition is currently underway. Technical Data: Length: 8.2 inches Height: 5.4 inches Weight: -Empty 1.4 pounds -Loaded 1.7 pounds Magazine Capacity: 20 rounds Penetrate PASGT vest 300 meters Penetrate PASGT helmet 240 meters Penetrate CRISAT vest 100 meters Suggested Price: (Law Enforcement agencies only- 5.7 x 28 caliber weapons are not available to the general public) Five-seveN D.A.: $585 Available! Five-seveN D.A.N.S: $702 Available Mid 2001 __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

09-30-2003, 10:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
pointfourfive Upright	The ammunition is also extremely restricted, so even if you found one on the street, you'd still have a tough time shooting it.

09-30-2003, 05:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	No such animal. LEO only. I really don't know that penetration has that much to do with it. There are plenty rounds available normally that have as good a chance, or better, of punching through today's vests. It may be a manufacturer's decision. It may also be because the round might be classified as rifle ammo and thus not legal in such short length and pistol configurations.

09-30-2003, 10:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
cluster Upright	part of the reason is that they dont make < that I know of> ant 10 rds mags.. only seen the 20 mag version... someone did a ballistic geletin test with one.. other then thier abilty to priece kevlar the test showed not much diffrent from a .22 as far as ballistics in soft tissue.. the LEO restrition is a comp policy.. not a .gov one. if you can find non armour pireceing <ss190 i think they are> and a ten round mag.. you are good to go I believe... the AP rounds.. i dont think they will ever be readily aviably anyway due the hangun AP round ban on civies..

10-01-2003, 09:56 AM	#10 (permalink)
kel WARNING: FLAMMABLE Location: Ask Acetylene	Here yah go http://www.fnmfg.com/lawenf/57ammoinfo.htm "BATF regulations: All components of this system are tightly regulated by BATF. The P90 (NFA, Class III weapon) can only be sold and registered to a law enforcement agency. The Five-seveN pistol is slightly different. The first sale, which requires the pistol to be legally imported into the US, requires the same procedure as the P90. A BATF Form 6 is needed which the chief or the second in command must sign. The pistol can then be removed from the Custom Bonded Warehouse and shipped to the agency. The ammunition is controlled in much the same manner, an approved BATF Form 6 is required then the ammunition can be shipped direct to the agency." __________________ "It better be funny"

10-02-2003, 12:16 AM	#11 (permalink)
Stargazer01 Tilted	So really all i need is a ClassIII FFL and i'm good to go... Great :P lol. Seriously though, thanks alot I knew someone would have an answer

10-02-2003, 12:22 AM	#12 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	NO. As I recall, there is a national ban on civilians owning armor piercing handgun ammo and that is what the ammo for this gun is specifically designed to do. So I think you're still screwed. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

10-02-2003, 12:30 AM	#13 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Well, I was partly right. Apparently you can by SS192 (the hollowpoint 5.7x22 training round, no penetrating core), just not the SS190 armor piercing stuff. Of course, it is a little expensive... http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976328128.htm Description: WTS new Winchester prodiction SS192 is the new designation for the training ammo for the FNP90 submachine guns and FiveseveN pistols. We were just given approval to sell this ammo to anybody, including civilians. This is hollowpoint ammo and is not armor piercing. $25 per box of 50 rounds or $460 per 1000 rounds. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

10-02-2003, 12:43 AM	#14 (permalink)
Stargazer01 Tilted	Yeah but the gun still has to be shipped to a Goverment or LOE, or someone with a ClassIII FFL for me to purchase (if i can?) Correct??

10-02-2003, 04:38 AM	#15 (permalink)
cluster Upright	here is my 2 cents.. FFL/SOT can only sell to dept/agencys... and indivdaul LEO's with dept letterhead. what happens to the individual LEO bought pistols.. are they then able to trasferable with the 10 rds mags? < since it is thier property ?> I know the AR15 LEO only marked lowers can be sold to civies < must be kept post ban> after the intinal LEO purchase.. <same hoops to jump thru as the FN > the pistol MIght have a chance of bieing in civie hands... the P90 will never be .. unless the MG ban of '86 is lifted < crossing fingers>

10-13-2003, 09:09 AM	#16 (permalink)
biznotch Upright	wow... whats FFL, class I, II or II mean? I mean I think its some kind of level of authority which permits you to carry different types of guns...I guess, an anyone xplain this to me? That Five-Seven is a beauty...but I just love HK handguns better(ergonomically speaking).

10-14-2003, 08:34 AM	#17 (permalink)
G5_Todd Junkie Location: Reichstag	hmmm will have to look into this __________________ "....and when you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." -General Franks

11-30-2003, 03:49 PM	#25 (permalink)
Bikes Are Sweet Crazy	that is one fine pistol...

12-01-2003, 11:47 PM	#26 (permalink)
Stargazer01 Tilted	yup

10-15-2003, 11:56 AM	#18 (permalink)
cluster Upright	for sale to civies right now. here is the ammo and the weapon and a dealer that well sell to YOU. http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_5_7_ss192_ammo.html http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_fiveseven.html guess the question has been answered ,, " Yes you can buy them." proving that the "Ban" on these is simply FN company policy and not the law. < didnt re-read thread so dont know if this has already been posted > edited to add : well thelaww does ban the over 10 rds and AP ammo but the ss192 and the 10 rd mag is the way around that. Last edited by cluster; 10-15-2003 at 11:59 AM..

10-20-2003, 03:19 PM	#19 (permalink)
Tiger69z Banned Location: Sunny S.FLA	WTF hehe dude i coulda sworn that guns couldn't be sold online unless it was shipped to some Federal firearms license approved place or whatever?

10-20-2003, 06:11 PM	#21 (permalink)
kel WARNING: FLAMMABLE Location: Ask Acetylene	Consider the cost and availability of 5.7x28mm ammunition. __________________ "It better be funny"

10-21-2003, 12:31 PM	#22 (permalink)
G5_Todd Junkie Location: Reichstag	just called my local dealer...he carries it but hasnt sold one yet lol he said...... he said he couldnt even give me a price off hand and would have to get back to me..... only thing he said i would need is permission to posess the high capacity 20 round magazines...but that wont be a problem... __________________ "....and when you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." -General Franks

10-29-2003, 07:26 PM	#23 (permalink)
Bowlcut Tilted Location: Nashville, TN USA	i just like the ergonomics of the gun, and well the high cap of them. ok yea "cop killer" bull crap....but thats stupid. id still like to see some balistics on that bullet. know its a decent round, other than hard to get here in america. and that is one sexy pistola __________________ Remember, my opinion is as irrelevant as yours.....

11-14-2003, 06:27 AM	#24 (permalink)
blockmaan2000 Crazy	Will verify, you can own one of these ... for like $1300. You can also buy the HP ammo, just not the "real" AP round. BTW any of the rounds produced will pierce a level II vest. Check out a guy named CMMG on ar15.com block

12-02-2003, 12:33 AM	#27 (permalink)
G5_Todd Junkie Location: Reichstag	1300 bucks your getting ripped off....i found one for 800 and even thats a bit high....... 600 is a good deal __________________ "....and when you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." -General Franks

12-02-2003, 12:03 PM	#28 (permalink)
Stargazer01 Tilted	600 for a 5-7 NEW? where?

12-02-2003, 01:03 PM	#29 (permalink)
kel WARNING: FLAMMABLE Location: Ask Acetylene	Shoot it before you buy it... You may find out it just sucks for you. Everyone wants a USP but I can't stand shooting it. __________________ "It better be funny"

12-02-2003, 04:02 PM	#30 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	shrug I liked the USP .40 that I bought (for $325, sweet deal!). Thing is, my Mom liked it better, so I gave it to her. Seems odd that such a bulky gun would be comfortable in her small hands, but she loves it. Who am I to say? I do agree with shooting something before you buy it, especially if it is an oddball like the FiveSeven. It sacreligeous to say this, but I can't stand the 1911-A1. I blew a heckuva lot of money on different models and calibres trying to find one that "fit". Once I realized that none of 'em do, I was much better off. Personally, I think this gun is oddball, and the scarcity of it puts me off. I also cannot say that I can really appreciate the concept.