rahl

well each state is different. I can't speak for any other state but my own, but in ohio it is a bit more extensive. You have to pass a written exam on basic gun safety, then "qualify" on the range.

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raptor9k

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KirStang

Well, I thought I'd inject this thought in to this discussion:

How many of you have taken basic gun courses at a shooting school? How many of you felt at least some improvement after taking the course, either in terms of legal knowledge or shooting ability?

I know I improved. Hence, I feel like courses are valueable in that regard.

rahl

I've taken multiple levels of training and I know it has helped me tremendously.

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raptor9k

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ChrisJericho

I applied for my concealed pistol license today. In Washington state the process is very simple, you sign some papers saying you're not a felon, they run a background check and finger print you, and then you get the permit in the mail in a couple of weeks.

The process took about 30 minutes, it would have been much faster if there was more one than one finger printing machine. If there was no one else in front of me in the line it likely would have taken about 15 minutes.

I agree with what some others have said in that there should absolutely not be any shooting tests to get a permit. There are already multiple police agencies in my area that actively try in the political arena to disarm citizens. Here is just a recent example of a police chief of a city that borders me to the south, who came out in support of a silly assault weapons ban:

Capitol packed for hearing on assault weapons ban | KOMO News - Breaking News, Sports, Traffic and Weather - Seattle, Washington | Local & Regional

If law enforcement officials such as this were given the power to force citizens to pass target shooting exams in order to get a permit (in Washington state you apply for your permit at the local sheriff or city police agency), I wouldn't be surprised if they designed tests with extremely high standards, likely ones that their own officers would have a hard time meeting. This is somewhat hypothetical, but I would prefer not giving them the power and therefore leaving the question unanswered.

The thing that bothered me the most however was the fingerprinting. It made me feel like a criminal just for wanting to protect myself and others. I know of at least a few people that have held off on getting a permit due to the fingerprinting because they "don't want to be in the system." Even though it bothered me, it was a sacrifice I was willing to make.

Whether I should even have to make that sacrifice is something I am still thinking about. For me, like some others have said, the benefits of not facing penalties for breaking the law, outweighed my desire for privacy.

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Plan9

Mmm, a story of Washington state. But just that state. In the state of Virginia, for example, you have to attend hours of classroom training from a state-certified instructor (topics include safety, carry laws, when you can shoot, what to do after a shooting), meet the minimum score on the range (shooting and reloading from standing and kneeling at a man-sized target at various ranges). The shooting portion is a similar test to that of police department firearms qualification and can hardly be called difficult. In fact, you could say that those who cannot complete such a basic test should not be allowed to carry a lethal weapon because they're too fumblefucked or too physically feeble. I don't want John Q. Citizen out there with a CCW and packing a .45 if he can't pass a test that some sweaty-palmed potbelly police recruit can manage to pass after a few goes with the remedial marksmanship training guy.

You should check out the requirements of other states. They're very reasonable. I'd even suggest that they're just as reasonable as taking a driving test at the DMV: to make sure you know what you're doing with a lethal weapon. Credentials don't mean dick unless some qualification is involved.

I'm curious, what tinfoil hat squad fears does fingerprinting evoke in you? You're young, white, and incredibly average, no?

Google has more information on you than the cops do. That doesn't stop people from using their search engine or browser or email.

...

Nice seg. The instructor-led "tactical" training I've taken has been extremely valuable. It allows you to practice performing under stress (ooo, other people are watching!) as well as introducing you to new techniques. I thought I was a decent shooter until I took a few pistol classes.

ChrisJericho

Oh, I'm just not a fan of handing over personal information over to other people. If you want to head down to your local PD and volunteer some biological information and see if they get any false positives be my guest

-Young? Most on this board would say yes.
-White? I'm a mix of sugar and spice and everything nice.
-Incredibly average? Only in my pants

Also, I am not against classes. I am definitely going to take some, I just don't want my local government dictating any exams.

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Plan9

This is especially ironic if you know the turnaround time on the crime lab in my state. It takes 6 months to get DNA results back.

But why?

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ChrisJericho

Just imagine the 6 months being like the weeks before Christmas as a kid, filled with anticipation over the magical gifts you might receive. Surprise! Your prints match a partial found at a Montana murder site! I think I saw something like that on 24 once, so it must be true.

Regarding your 'why' question, I have already stated my reasoning. It seems that we have philosophical differences, which is fine. I suppose that's why I live in Washington state and you live in whichever state you live in.

There are a few things I would like to examine in your post though. I don't believe comparing the DMV and driving tests to Police and shooting tests is completely accurate. While it is true that both cars and guns can be lethal weapons, the head of the DMV isn't out on a political crusade to get cars banned. Also, while you might approve of how Virgina handles their exams and application process, I would be willing to bet you might not have the same feelings as to how California decides on who gets permits. So the logic of 'because local exams work well in X state, they should be used in all states' doesn't really fly. Of course, the flip side of that argument is also true, just because the process stinks in California doesn't mean it stinks everywhere else. The thing is, I like (aside from my foil-hat fueled annoyance at the fingerprinting) the way my state's CCW process operates now and I adhere to the old slogan "if it ain't broke don't fix it."

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Plan9

Yeah, I was just messing around with you.

It's good to see logic in this thread.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

queedo

I got me CC a fw months ago but I have only carries once. I guess right now I don't really need to carry, but I got it for the future when I would be runnign my own business and I may be carrying more cash on me after hours to the bank and such.

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