New rifle - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

FelixP · 09-22-2009, 06:39 PM

Hi, I'm wondering if you guys could suggest a decent rifle for around 500-750 bucks. I don't really care if it's bolt action or semi-auto. I'm thinking .223 or 7.62*39, simply because they appear to be cheaper than either .308 Winchester or .30-06. I'm not really interested in anything with a fixed bayonet (e.g. SKS). Thanks for your time.

I should add that I plan on using it almost exclusively for casual target shooting (no matches or anything like that) for the forseeable future, so it doesn't need to be able to be dunked in mud for thirty years and then fire off a full mag after being dug up.

Plan9 · 09-22-2009, 06:48 PM

You can take the bayonet off. A lot of guys I know do.

...

Savage short action in .223 or .308. You can't go wrong. It isn't flashy, but it's inexpensive and will last forever. $500ish.

Specifically, check out the Savage Scout (10FCM). .308, 18" barrel, ghost rings and scout rail included. I love mine. Is handy.

...

CZ 527 in 7.62x39mm bolt action is also a great gun. It isn't an "assault rifle" but features a quick detach mag. Subtle, fun. $600ish.

...

... I won't suggest a Ruger Mini series rifle. I feel that would put me in the gun 'tard crowd. I do own one and I've had a positive experience with it.

FelixP · 09-22-2009, 09:17 PM

Thanks for the tips. Why wouldn't you recommend a Ruger Mini? Are there any semi-autos you would suggest?

The_Dunedan · 09-23-2009, 06:11 AM

Remington SPS Tactical. In .223 or .308, shoots sub-MOA with WOLF FMJ. With 175-grain Noslers, 40yr-old Indian brass, 30yr-old US surplus powder, and plain-Jane Remington primers, this rifle will shoot less than 1/3MOA (ie cut the same hole at 300yds). Be sure to break the barrel in properly, though, or else you'll be stuck with an FN PBR-level shooter, and the SPS Tactical is capable of MUCH better. $600-$750

Stevens 200 series are great for the money, and some come with scopes from the factory. Savage actions and barrels (though sadly no Accu-Trigger), so very accurate. $300-450

SKSs and AKs are always a good bet, but don't look for a new AR in your price-range unless it's a DPMS Sportical. A 20" Saiga in .223 would be a very nice setup, and the Saigas are capable of around 1MOA for less than $500.

Walt · 09-23-2009, 10:27 AM

I'm guessing that nobody has plugged the Mini-14 because it has an overly complicated and outdated action (a mod'ed M14). It's a handy little rifle, though its not very accurate, is a bitch to take down (I think you need a screwdriver-not good if you need to clean it in the field), and the rifle is very limited in what you can do to customize it. IIRC, it doesn't take the universal AR mags which requires you to use factory Ruger stuff.

Are you looking for a semi-auto or a bolt gun?

If you're looking for a semi-auto, IMO you really cant beat the AR platform. It's cheap to shoot, and easy to operate/disassemble/clean. The entire US military likes it for exactly those reasons. On top of that, there are literally thousands of custom parts makers out there who specialize in the AR. This gives a shooter infinite possibilities to tweak a rifle for his/her given needs.

As a bonus, the AR platform is like the Transformers of rifles in that its completely modular. Lets say you're in to the tactical shooting scene. Just throw on an upper receiver with holographic sights, a short barrel and a gangster grip and you're good to go. If you want to do some longer range shooting, just pull two retaining pins to remove the short upper and throw on one that has a longer barrel and a good scope. The sights never leave the receiver so there is no need to re-zero your rifle every time you swap out uppers.

AK's are work horses and can usually be found for less $ than an AR but they aren't near as accurate, they need (a structurally questionable) specialized mount for optics and don't allow the user to swap out barrels/upper receivers. Also....b/c of shitty machining tolerances I don't think you can pull the bolt from one rifle and put it in another, making repairs a bitch. Guys?

If you're looking for a bolt gun, the guys before me have it covered. I'm a Rem 700 guy but thats just personal preference. Savage, Marlin, Ruger and Stevens all make handy little packages that will shoot surprisingly well.

Whatever you decide on, I'd stay away from anything chambered in a Magnum cartridge. They're hella expensive and will give you about 1/10th of the barrel life you would get from a standard caliber.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Dunedan

Be sure to break the barrel in properly, though, or else you'll be stuck with an FN PBR-level shooter, and the SPS Tactical is capable of MUCH better. $600-$750

How to Break-in a Barrel

FelixP · 09-23-2009, 11:43 AM

ARs tend to be a little beyond my price range for the time being, but I was on gunbroker.com looking at some Saiga AKs, some chambered in .223 Rem, others in 7.62 Soviet, some with 20in barrels, others with 16in barrels.

I don't plan on getting any Magnum rifles. Expensive ammo and too much recoil for a novice-early intermediate shooter.

I'm a little confused as to what it means to break in a barrel. I seem to be getting two different opinions here. I know with my pellet gun I just practiced as much as I could, and eventually it's accuracy and precision went up to the point where I can knock over a can at 50 yards.

Cimarron29414 · 09-23-2009, 01:10 PM

aimsurplus has new ARs for < $700. The newest Mini-14s have solved much of the accuracy issues they had in earlier models and has a beefed up barrel. I believe they are around $1000 though. If all you want is a plinker, I would look at cost of ammo, not cost of rifle. you also need to look at where you are going to shoot. If the best range you can get to is 100 yds, there is no need going to a .308. I would pick up a $200 mauser or $100 nagant and some surplus ammo. It doesn't sound like you want to do precision shooting, so those are inexpensive ways to enjoy the trigger pulling.

The_Dunedan · 09-23-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

aimsurplus has new ARs for < $700.

Made by whom, though, is the question. Only new AR I can think of that's selling at that price are the horrid Vulcan Arms examples...even the Sportical (which is an excellent starter AR, btw) is $750+ these days. The Vulcan guns are known for destroying their gas-tubes in short order, along with bolts and bolt-carriers, and are also known for receiver galling and stretch. Avoid if possible.

SSJTWIZTA · 09-23-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

... I won't suggest a Ruger Mini series rifle. I feel that would put me in the gun 'tard crowd. I do own one and I've had a positive experience with it.

who cares if it puts you in with the "gun 'tard crowd?" we both know it's a good rifle. ruger makes good shit, mhm.

the old man just walked past and muttered "go to a pawn shop" under his breath. he bought a nice winchester .243 a while back from a pawnshop for the cheapness.

*sigh* poor old man just lost his winchester model 100 .308. but thats a story for a different time.

Ilow · 09-23-2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Dunedan

Made by whom, though, is the question. Only new AR I can think of that's selling at that price are the horrid Vulcan Arms examples...even the Sportical (which is an excellent starter AR, btw) is $750+ these days. The Vulcan guns are known for destroying their gas-tubes in short order, along with bolts and bolt-carriers, and are also known for receiver galling and stretch. Avoid if possible.

Looks like they are DEL-TON DTI-4 carbines on that AIM site, for a little under $700. Don't know anything about them, but it makes me suspicious...
There are AR kits out there which are around $450-500 and you could get stripped lowers for $100-150.
You could just get an old surplus rifle like the Russian Mosin Nagant, with the matching sniper scope. Probably get it for $400, it's a collector, shoots great, has surplus 7.62x54 ammo everywhere, and has big rifle bang.
Or new I'd probably look at a Savage with the Accutrigger. Really top notch out of the box, IMO.

The_Dunedan · 09-23-2009, 06:55 PM

We've sold a few Del-Ton weapons, and they seem all right. Certainly not the monstrosity that the Vulcans are, but the fit/finish are in the Century/Olympic league, certainly not as nice as DPMS, Colt, Bushmaster, etc. None of our customers have complained, but most of our customers use their rifles to hold their closets up, so that that with a grain of salt.

Plan9 · 09-23-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJTWIZTA

who cares if it puts you in with the "gun 'tard crowd?" we both know it's a good rifle. ruger makes good shit, mhm.

Ruger makes good revolvers. And that's where my positive opinion stops.

FelixP · 09-23-2009, 07:42 PM

At first I thought I struck gold with the AR-15s, but they were all .22LR. I did see one AR-15 with a 20 inch HBAR for a decent price, but still more expensive than the Saiga AKs I was looking at. What do you guys think? What would you pick?

Plan9 · 09-23-2009, 07:48 PM

The difference between $500 and $750 is kinda nothing in the long run. Why not push for what you really want instead of what fits your (probably) unrealistic budget. If you want an AR, get an AR. If you want a bolt gun, get a nice bolt gun with glass. It's a one time investment. Go for quality.

Guns: more expensive than kittens, less expensive than golf.

I think you should buy one of those new FN repeaters in .308. And let me shoot it.

SSJTWIZTA · 09-23-2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

Ruger makes good revolvers. And that's where my positive opinion stops.

ahh c'mon man. i've had my mark II m77 7.62x39mm all weather for years now...not one single problem.

Plan9 · 09-23-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJTWIZTA

ahh c'mon man. i've had my mark II m77 7.62x39mm all weather for years now...not one single problem.

Except Savage's cheaper.

SSJTWIZTA · 09-24-2009, 11:51 AM

*face-palm* yeah, they are.

i have a savage .22 rifle i bought at a garage sell 6 or 7 years ago for 5 dollars. its a great little gun, shoot it every week. never cleaned it, never had a problem. from my experience you cant go wrong with that company when it comes to reliability.

Walt · 09-24-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixP

At first I thought I struck gold with the AR-15s, but they were all .22LR. I did see one AR-15 with a 20 inch HBAR for a decent price, but still more expensive than the Saiga AKs I was looking at. What do you guys think? What would you pick?

When in doubt, buy American.

FelixP · 09-24-2009, 04:32 PM

Thanks for all the input and differing opinions guys. I already have one bolt gun, so I think for the time being I'll probably go with an AR15 for the sake of diversity (and the ease of customization). I'm going to the local gun store on saturday to see what all they have. If they don't have much, I saw a nice little carbine on gunbroker.com.

Slims · 09-24-2009, 05:22 PM

...you can build your own for several hundred dollars less than buying a complete one. FYI.

Plan9 · 09-25-2009, 03:49 AM

You could also buy a used AR from GunBroker, et al.

I've had a positive experience with used firearms.

FelixP · 09-28-2009, 08:31 PM

Well, I ended up getting an M1 carbine. The AR15s were too expensive at my local gunstore (family owned and operated for over fifty years; I try to support local businesses), so I looked at some Kar98ks instead. The furniture was a little loose, which led me to question the integrity of the two weapons in question as a whole. After a cursory look at a FN FAL, I saw It. It was beautiful. A M1 Carbine with parkerized finish and walnut stock. I tried to buy it on Saturday, but unbeknownst to me my ID had expired, so today I went to get a new ID, and managed to buy the gun about five minutes before the store closed.

I figure it'll make a decent varminter/plinker, and half-decent home defense (loaded with hollowpoints of course) until I can afford a shotgun, which I don't plan on buying until I own my own home someday and have a decent income.

I love military surplus rifles and replicas, as the case may be.

Plan9 · 09-28-2009, 08:37 PM

Hey, I've got one of those. They're fun for the whole family.

I'd recommend picking up some USGI 30-round mags and putting a rubber buttplate extension on your new toy.

The paratrooper stocks are cool to look at but hardly comfortable. You could get Tacticool and screw on a length of 1913 rail for your light.

M1s are like pistols with stocks (in regards to ballistic punch and weight) and the length of pull is best described as "gremlin-like."

If I recall correctly, the thing is about as powerful a .38 Special or 9mm depending on the ammo you use.

Fire · 09-28-2009, 09:14 PM

its actually closer to a .357, but its still no rifle- problem with them is that they tend to punch little holes all the way through things rather than stick around and / or blow a large exit wound- but I know a few gi's who are still kicking around who used em in vietnam, and found them quite adequate to kill enemies at close range, but one of said guys warned me that you wanted to hit them a few times to be sure, but that that was easy enough as the weapon had no real recoil and was pretty accurate ..... got one myself, and they are neat, and handy, and probably all one would need for HD use with soft point ammo.....

Plan9 · 09-28-2009, 09:28 PM

I stand corrected. Thanks for the refresher, Fire. Despite the stats, I'd feel more confident with a single shot from a Marlin .357 Mag lever gun than a M1C.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia to the rescue!

"A standard .30 carbine ball round weighs 110 grains (7.1 g) m and has a muzzle velocity of 1,900 ft/s (580 m/s) giving it 880 foot-pounds (1,190 joules) of energy. By comparison, a .357 Magnum revolver fires the same weight bullet from a 4-inch (100 mm) barrel at about 1,500 ft/s (460 m/s) for about 550 foot-pounds force (750 N·m) of energy, though it is important to note that the .357 bullet is larger in diameter (caliber) and is normally an expanding or hollow-point design.[1] The .30 carbine was developed from the .32 Winchester Self-Loading used in an early semi-auto sporting rifle; both rounds are comparable to the .32-20 Winchester round used in carbines and revolvers."

I may be biased on the punch effect. My experience has been with a Plainfield Enforcer pistol, not a full tube USGI M1 Carbine.

FelixP · 10-06-2009, 12:18 PM

I still haven't had a chance to fire it (thankyou, NW ohio!), but I'm still holding my breath. I can't wait! I'm trying to find hollowpoint ammo, but so far all I've got is 100 rounds of sellier-bellot round-nosed bullets.

BackwoodsmanVA · 10-11-2009, 08:45 PM

Savage short action in .223 or .308. You can't go wrong. It isn't flashy, but it's inexpensive and will last forever. $500ish.

Specifically, check out the Savage Scout (10FCM). .308, 18" barrel, ghost rings and scout rail included. I love mine. Is handy.

The Savage rifles are so underrated,since they have brought out the new trigger system,and offered wood upgrades and such a LOT of folks are takling to them.
They have ALWAYS been fine shooters,and have been accurate all along.The factory is staying humminmg turning them out.
So as you can tell,I second Crompsin's remarks on the Savage.

Shunyata34 · 10-21-2009, 02:17 PM

I bought a Savage 10FCP-K for about $780.00

Put a Konus pro M series scope on it 4.5X16X40MM

It's a real nice set up and good accuracy out of the box.

09-22-2009, 06:39 PM	#1 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	New rifle Hi, I'm wondering if you guys could suggest a decent rifle for around 500-750 bucks. I don't really care if it's bolt action or semi-auto. I'm thinking .223 or 7.6239, simply because they appear to be cheaper than either .308 Winchester or .30-06. I'm not really interested in anything with a fixed bayonet (e.g. SKS). Thanks for your time. I should add that I plan on using it almost exclusively for casual target shooting (no matches or anything like that) for the forseeable future, so it doesn't need to be able to be dunked in mud for thirty years and then fire off a full mag after being dug up. __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur Last edited by FelixP; 09-22-2009 at 09:13 PM..*

09-22-2009, 06:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	You can take the bayonet off. A lot of guys I know do. ... Savage short action in .223 or .308. You can't go wrong. It isn't flashy, but it's inexpensive and will last forever. $500ish. Specifically, check out the Savage Scout (10FCM). .308, 18" barrel, ghost rings and scout rail included. I love mine. Is handy. ... CZ 527 in 7.62x39mm bolt action is also a great gun. It isn't an "assault rifle" but features a quick detach mag. Subtle, fun. $600ish. ... ... I won't suggest a Ruger Mini series rifle. I feel that would put me in the gun 'tard crowd. I do own one and I've had a positive experience with it. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 09-22-2009 at 07:06 PM..

09-22-2009, 09:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	Thanks for the tips. Why wouldn't you recommend a Ruger Mini? Are there any semi-autos you would suggest? __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

09-23-2009, 11:43 AM	#6 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	ARs tend to be a little beyond my price range for the time being, but I was on gunbroker.com looking at some Saiga AKs, some chambered in .223 Rem, others in 7.62 Soviet, some with 20in barrels, others with 16in barrels. I don't plan on getting any Magnum rifles. Expensive ammo and too much recoil for a novice-early intermediate shooter. I'm a little confused as to what it means to break in a barrel. I seem to be getting two different opinions here. I know with my pellet gun I just practiced as much as I could, and eventually it's accuracy and precision went up to the point where I can knock over a can at 50 yards. __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur Last edited by FelixP; 09-23-2009 at 02:18 PM..

09-23-2009, 01:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	aimsurplus has new ARs for < $700. The newest Mini-14s have solved much of the accuracy issues they had in earlier models and has a beefed up barrel. I believe they are around $1000 though. If all you want is a plinker, I would look at cost of ammo, not cost of rifle. you also need to look at where you are going to shoot. If the best range you can get to is 100 yds, there is no need going to a .308. I would pick up a $200 mauser or $100 nagant and some surplus ammo. It doesn't sound like you want to do precision shooting, so those are inexpensive ways to enjoy the trigger pulling. __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

09-23-2009, 06:11 AM	#4 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Remington SPS Tactical. In .223 or .308, shoots sub-MOA with WOLF FMJ. With 175-grain Noslers, 40yr-old Indian brass, 30yr-old US surplus powder, and plain-Jane Remington primers, this rifle will shoot less than 1/3MOA (ie cut the same hole at 300yds). Be sure to break the barrel in properly, though, or else you'll be stuck with an FN PBR-level shooter, and the SPS Tactical is capable of MUCH better. $600-$750 Stevens 200 series are great for the money, and some come with scopes from the factory. Savage actions and barrels (though sadly no Accu-Trigger), so very accurate. $300-450 SKSs and AKs are always a good bet, but don't look for a new AR in your price-range unless it's a DPMS Sportical. A 20" Saiga in .223 would be a very nice setup, and the Saigas are capable of around 1MOA for less than $500.

09-23-2009, 06:55 PM	#11 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	We've sold a few Del-Ton weapons, and they seem all right. Certainly not the monstrosity that the Vulcans are, but the fit/finish are in the Century/Olympic league, certainly not as nice as DPMS, Colt, Bushmaster, etc. None of our customers have complained, but most of our customers use their rifles to hold their closets up, so that that with a grain of salt.

09-23-2009, 07:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	At first I thought I struck gold with the AR-15s, but they were all .22LR. I did see one AR-15 with a 20 inch HBAR for a decent price, but still more expensive than the Saiga AKs I was looking at. What do you guys think? What would you pick? __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

09-23-2009, 07:48 PM	#14 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	The difference between $500 and $750 is kinda nothing in the long run. Why not push for what you really want instead of what fits your (probably) unrealistic budget. If you want an AR, get an AR. If you want a bolt gun, get a nice bolt gun with glass. It's a one time investment. Go for quality. Guns: more expensive than kittens, less expensive than golf. I think you should buy one of those new FN repeaters in .308. And let me shoot it. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-24-2009, 11:51 AM	#17 (permalink)
SSJTWIZTA Master Thief. Master Criminal. Masturbator. Location: Windiwana	face-palm yeah, they are. i have a savage .22 rifle i bought at a garage sell 6 or 7 years ago for 5 dollars. its a great little gun, shoot it every week. never cleaned it, never had a problem. from my experience you cant go wrong with that company when it comes to reliability. __________________ First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me. -Pastor Martin Niemoller

09-24-2009, 04:32 PM	#19 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	Thanks for all the input and differing opinions guys. I already have one bolt gun, so I think for the time being I'll probably go with an AR15 for the sake of diversity (and the ease of customization). I'm going to the local gun store on saturday to see what all they have. If they don't have much, I saw a nice little carbine on gunbroker.com. __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

09-24-2009, 05:22 PM	#20 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	...you can build your own for several hundred dollars less than buying a complete one. FYI. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

09-25-2009, 03:49 AM	#21 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	You could also buy a used AR from GunBroker, et al. I've had a positive experience with used firearms. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-28-2009, 08:31 PM	#22 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	Auto ordnance M1 Well, I ended up getting an M1 carbine. The AR15s were too expensive at my local gunstore (family owned and operated for over fifty years; I try to support local businesses), so I looked at some Kar98ks instead. The furniture was a little loose, which led me to question the integrity of the two weapons in question as a whole. After a cursory look at a FN FAL, I saw It. It was beautiful. A M1 Carbine with parkerized finish and walnut stock. I tried to buy it on Saturday, but unbeknownst to me my ID had expired, so today I went to get a new ID, and managed to buy the gun about five minutes before the store closed. I figure it'll make a decent varminter/plinker, and half-decent home defense (loaded with hollowpoints of course) until I can afford a shotgun, which I don't plan on buying until I own my own home someday and have a decent income. I love military surplus rifles and replicas, as the case may be. __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur Last edited by FelixP; 09-28-2009 at 08:36 PM.. Reason: clarifying point

09-28-2009, 08:37 PM	#23 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Hey, I've got one of those. They're fun for the whole family. I'd recommend picking up some USGI 30-round mags and putting a rubber buttplate extension on your new toy. The paratrooper stocks are cool to look at but hardly comfortable. You could get Tacticool and screw on a length of 1913 rail for your light. M1s are like pistols with stocks (in regards to ballistic punch and weight) and the length of pull is best described as "gremlin-like." If I recall correctly, the thing is about as powerful a .38 Special or 9mm depending on the ammo you use. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 09-28-2009 at 08:39 PM..

09-28-2009, 09:14 PM	#24 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	its actually closer to a .357, but its still no rifle- problem with them is that they tend to punch little holes all the way through things rather than stick around and / or blow a large exit wound- but I know a few gi's who are still kicking around who used em in vietnam, and found them quite adequate to kill enemies at close range, but one of said guys warned me that you wanted to hit them a few times to be sure, but that that was easy enough as the weapon had no real recoil and was pretty accurate ..... got one myself, and they are neat, and handy, and probably all one would need for HD use with soft point ammo..... __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens Last edited by Fire; 09-28-2009 at 09:17 PM..

10-06-2009, 12:18 PM	#26 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	I still haven't had a chance to fire it (thankyou, NW ohio!), but I'm still holding my breath. I can't wait! I'm trying to find hollowpoint ammo, but so far all I've got is 100 rounds of sellier-bellot round-nosed bullets. __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

10-11-2009, 08:45 PM	#27 (permalink)
BackwoodsmanVA Upright	Savage short action in .223 or .308. You can't go wrong. It isn't flashy, but it's inexpensive and will last forever. $500ish. Specifically, check out the Savage Scout (10FCM). .308, 18" barrel, ghost rings and scout rail included. I love mine. Is handy. The Savage rifles are so underrated,since they have brought out the new trigger system,and offered wood upgrades and such a LOT of folks are takling to them. They have ALWAYS been fine shooters,and have been accurate all along.The factory is staying humminmg turning them out. So as you can tell,I second Crompsin's remarks on the Savage.

10-21-2009, 02:17 PM	#28 (permalink)
Shunyata34 Upright Location: Washington State	I bought a Savage 10FCP-K for about $780.00 Put a Konus pro M series scope on it 4.5X16X40MM It's a real nice set up and good accuracy out of the box.