Soldier accidentally kills GF while cleaning gun - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ChrisJericho · 09-16-2009, 05:28 AM

This sad story was on the local news last night. Here are two links (one says the gun was hers, the other says it was his):

Soldier faces possible charges in accidental shooting of girlfriend | KOMO News - Seattle, Washington | Local & Regional

Boyfriend Accused Of Accidentally Shooting Girlfriend In Chehalis - Seattle News Story - KIRO Seattle

What do you think the guy's punishment should be? He is/was in the military yet still broke multiple gun safety rules.

Also if you watch the video clip under the title, it appears the gun is a Walther P22.

Additionally in the first link, the prosecutor says:

"And as he racked it back his hand slipped, the slide fell forward, he caught a bullet through his finger and unfortunately as he was doing this the gun was pointed at Miss Whitson," said Lewis County Prosecutor Mike Golden."

So does this mean when he racked the slide, he had his finger on the trigger? I don't see how the gun could discharge merely by racking the slide.

The_Dunedan · 09-16-2009, 05:56 AM

It couldn't. I'm sitting here with a P22 in my lap right now. They appear to be describing a "slam fire," in which the slide closed and somehow fired the round without the shooter pulling the trigger: unless the disconnector was broken or malfunctioning, a hammer-follow would not have been possible (and in such a case the weapon would have dumped the whole magazine.) If the firing-pin was "gunked" into place or otherwise fixed in the forward position I could see this happening (similar to an open-bolt machinegun), but not otherwise. Additionally, who leaves a magazine in their weapon while cleaning it (the only way for it to have gotten loaded as the article describes)? Furthermore, what kind of moron points a loaded firearm at their girlfriend!? (This kind, I guess.) The only reasonable explanation I can see is the same one that always comes out with these stories eventually: numbnuts either didn't know how to handle his weapon safely to begin with or was fuckin' around (or just plain shot her) and somebody else caught the bullet that shoulda gone into his right foot.

This dipshit shot his girlfriend, either by accident or design. He couldn't keep his booger-hook offa the BANG-switch, she paid for it, and now he's lying to cover it up. Simple. If it was a colossaly idiotic accident, I'm in favour of a Dishonorable Discharge with appropriate humiliation and piss-taking to follow for the next 40yrs. If it was intentional (as such "accidents," esp. with 22s, frequently are), he oughta spend the rest of his life in Leavenworth breaking rocks.

Plan9 · 09-16-2009, 06:04 AM

I concur with Heavy D.

The_Jazz · 09-16-2009, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Dunedan

This dipshit shot his girlfriend, either by accident or design. He couldn't keep his booger-hook offa the BANG-switch, she paid for it, and now he's lying to cover it up. Simple.

I've always been much more interested in guns as mechanical marvels than as extensions of power/tools/self-protection/empty pants compensator/whatever other one owns a gun. To me the engineering of them has always been the most interesting thing. With that in mind, these are two of the most illuminating posts I've read here in a long time, and they made it very easy for me to understand the inner workings of this model despite never even having held one. Thanks!

And the quote above seems pretty obviously true to me now.

Plan9 · 09-16-2009, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Crompsin

Pfft, nobody accidentally shoots their girlfriend. He's just trying to cover bitter malice with being a bumbling moron to reduce his sentence.

FuglyStick · 09-16-2009, 07:00 AM

Stories like this always amaze me. I was brought up in a household with many, many guns, and had it ingrained at a very early age to always treat a gun as if it was loaded.

Spiritsoar · 09-16-2009, 12:00 PM

Stories like this piss me off. I hate the emphasis on the fact the he was a soldier and veteran. It has nothing to do with the case. Except make him even more criminally negligent because he was trained about weapon safety.

In response to the above comment about punishments, I agree that he should be charged and maxxed for negligent homicide, but dishonorable discharge is unlikely for the charge, because he was most likely an off-duty National Guardsman not on federal orders at the time. I sure as shit hope his unit finds a way around that though, find some way to discharge him for bringing discredit to military service.

Jinn · 09-16-2009, 01:00 PM

Let's see here.. the three most important gun safety rules, the ones you never bend:

ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction
ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot
ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use

He simultaneously broke ALL THREE. If he'd obeyed even one of them, she might still be alive. Spooked, in the case that he only obeyed #1, but still alive.

Plan9 · 09-16-2009, 01:03 PM

His NCOs have failed him!

*drops and starts knockin' 'em out*

The_Dunedan · 09-16-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

He simultaneously broke ALL THREE. If he'd obeyed even one of them, she might still be alive. Spooked, in the case that he only obeyed #1, but still alive.

Col. Cooper used to joke that you could survive breaking one of his four gun-safety rules, but that one's odds of survival regressed logarithmically (or worse) with each additional rule broken. I'd amend the good Col. by adding that one's own odds, along with the odds for all those in the area, so decrease.

therealcat · 09-16-2009, 05:13 PM

There are actually four fundamental firearms safety rules:

Quote:

ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction
ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot
ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use
ALWAYS know your target and what lies beyond it

He broke all four, which makes me doubt it was an accident.

Slims · 09-16-2009, 06:16 PM

.....Stupidity does not imply malice.

The guy was an idiot, but I have seen lots of people inadvertently break the rules. I don't doubt he accidentally killed his girlfriend, and he should be charged accordingly. Manslaughter is probably appropriate, though whether he should be given a dishonerable discharge is another issue entirely and needs to be addressed by a military court.

Cleaning weapons seems to be the #1 time people become completely complacent with regards to safety. They get so caught up in what they are going to do, the smell of Hoppes, etc. that they forget to clear their weapon before they begin, or they have an AD. That this guy was so incompetent as to shoot his girlfriend is very dissappointing, but it doesn't look to me like it was intentional.

BTW, most people disagree with your third rule, instead it should read "treat every weapon as though it were loaded"

FelixP · 09-16-2009, 06:34 PM

I'm with dunedan. What kind of dumbass cleans a weapon while it's loaded? It seems like he would have been cleaning the mag anyway. Keep those springs tight boy!

Fire · 09-23-2009, 07:53 PM

THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED
THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED
THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED
THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED
THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED

First rule I ever learned with regard to firearms.... first one I drill into my newbs...

Apparently he missed the memo and now someones dead.....

Damn shame it wasn't him, but instead a bystander.......

09-16-2009, 05:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
ChrisJericho eat more fruit Location: Seattle	Soldier accidentally kills GF while cleaning gun This sad story was on the local news last night. Here are two links (one says the gun was hers, the other says it was his): Soldier faces possible charges in accidental shooting of girlfriend \| KOMO News - Seattle, Washington \| Local & Regional Boyfriend Accused Of Accidentally Shooting Girlfriend In Chehalis - Seattle News Story - KIRO Seattle What do you think the guy's punishment should be? He is/was in the military yet still broke multiple gun safety rules. Also if you watch the video clip under the title, it appears the gun is a Walther P22. Additionally in the first link, the prosecutor says: "And as he racked it back his hand slipped, the slide fell forward, he caught a bullet through his finger and unfortunately as he was doing this the gun was pointed at Miss Whitson," said Lewis County Prosecutor Mike Golden." So does this mean when he racked the slide, he had his finger on the trigger? I don't see how the gun could discharge merely by racking the slide. __________________ "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows us that faith proves nothing." - Friedrich Nietzsche

09-16-2009, 06:04 AM	#3 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	I concur with Heavy D. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-16-2009, 07:00 AM	#6 (permalink)
FuglyStick WHEEEE! Whee! Whee! WHEEEE! Location: Southern Illinois	Stories like this always amaze me. I was brought up in a household with many, many guns, and had it ingrained at a very early age to always treat a gun as if it was loaded. __________________ AZIZ! LIGHT!

09-16-2009, 12:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
Spiritsoar Tilted Location: Tacoma, WA	Stories like this piss me off. I hate the emphasis on the fact the he was a soldier and veteran. It has nothing to do with the case. Except make him even more criminally negligent because he was trained about weapon safety. In response to the above comment about punishments, I agree that he should be charged and maxxed for negligent homicide, but dishonorable discharge is unlikely for the charge, because he was most likely an off-duty National Guardsman not on federal orders at the time. I sure as shit hope his unit finds a way around that though, find some way to discharge him for bringing discredit to military service. __________________ Veritas Vos Liberabit

09-16-2009, 01:00 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	Let's see here.. the three most important gun safety rules, the ones you never bend: ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use He simultaneously broke ALL THREE. If he'd obeyed even one of them, she might still be alive. Spooked, in the case that he only obeyed #1, but still alive. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

09-16-2009, 05:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	It couldn't. I'm sitting here with a P22 in my lap right now. They appear to be describing a "slam fire," in which the slide closed and somehow fired the round without the shooter pulling the trigger: unless the disconnector was broken or malfunctioning, a hammer-follow would not have been possible (and in such a case the weapon would have dumped the whole magazine.) If the firing-pin was "gunked" into place or otherwise fixed in the forward position I could see this happening (similar to an open-bolt machinegun), but not otherwise. Additionally, who leaves a magazine in their weapon while cleaning it (the only way for it to have gotten loaded as the article describes)? Furthermore, what kind of moron points a loaded firearm at their girlfriend!? (This kind, I guess.) The only reasonable explanation I can see is the same one that always comes out with these stories eventually: numbnuts either didn't know how to handle his weapon safely to begin with or was fuckin' around (or just plain shot her) and somebody else caught the bullet that shoulda gone into his right foot. This dipshit shot his girlfriend, either by accident or design. He couldn't keep his booger-hook offa the BANG-switch, she paid for it, and now he's lying to cover it up. Simple. If it was a colossaly idiotic accident, I'm in favour of a Dishonorable Discharge with appropriate humiliation and piss-taking to follow for the next 40yrs. If it was intentional (as such "accidents," esp. with 22s, frequently are), he oughta spend the rest of his life in Leavenworth breaking rocks.

09-16-2009, 01:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	His NCOs have failed him! drops and starts knockin' 'em out __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

09-16-2009, 06:16 PM	#12 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	.....Stupidity does not imply malice. The guy was an idiot, but I have seen lots of people inadvertently break the rules. I don't doubt he accidentally killed his girlfriend, and he should be charged accordingly. Manslaughter is probably appropriate, though whether he should be given a dishonerable discharge is another issue entirely and needs to be addressed by a military court. Cleaning weapons seems to be the #1 time people become completely complacent with regards to safety. They get so caught up in what they are going to do, the smell of Hoppes, etc. that they forget to clear their weapon before they begin, or they have an AD. That this guy was so incompetent as to shoot his girlfriend is very dissappointing, but it doesn't look to me like it was intentional. BTW, most people disagree with your third rule, instead it should read "treat every weapon as though it were loaded" __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

09-16-2009, 06:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	I'm with dunedan. What kind of dumbass cleans a weapon while it's loaded? It seems like he would have been cleaning the mag anyway. Keep those springs tight boy! __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

09-23-2009, 07:53 PM	#14 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED First rule I ever learned with regard to firearms.... first one I drill into my newbs... Apparently he missed the memo and now someones dead..... Damn shame it wasn't him, but instead a bystander....... __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens