Jarik C-Bol

well, i know most people think Taurus builds a dandy boat anchor, but check out there site (not been here long enough to link) under revolvers, scroll down and look at the 410 shotshell and .45 colt section.
would make dandy home defense weapons. 5 rounds, start with birdshot, and work up to slugs.


personally, because i've not been able to afford such a gun yet, i keep a single shot 410 in the semi-ready stage for home defense, just cock and fire. i figure that, across the room, a 3 inch shell worth of birdshot will distract anyone long enough for me to get my glasses on and move up to more precise weapons.

Slims

No, it wouldn't.

The question has been asked before, the results are in....and birdshot out of a pistol is slightly less effective than simply throwing the pistol at the assailant.

Even 12 Ga birdshot out of a full sized shotgun has very limited effectiveness and relies almost entirely on the shot acting as a single unit. The .410 pistol doesn't have a large enough payload, very low velocity (due to the short barrel) and such a high rate of 'spread' due to the rifling the shot won't impact as a 'mass' and will most likely not even slow an attacker down.

Taurus makes a lot of nice, reasonably priced weapons which people tend to discount, and that .410 pistol would be just the ticket if I worked on a ranch and had to kill snakes frequently as well as larger animals from time to time. The pistol you refer to would not be too bad if loaded with .45 colt, but I wouldn't trust it at all with birdshot.

Don't count on 'distractions', plan on flat out incapacitation. If you plan on making it physically impossible for an assailant to continue an attack, you are probably thinking along the right lines. If you are relying on distracting someone you may very well be very surprised to find they are more committed to the fight than ever (and while holding an empty gun).

I know of several instances where an assailant was severely wounded and instead of slowing down, responded (probably due to the additional adrenaline) with increased aggression until they were killed/truly incapacitated.

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

Walt

Apparently you haven't seen the new Max Payne movie. Marky Mark is rocking the Tarus Judge and it hits like a 155 shooting "bee-hive" loads.

Seriously, though. Why not leave the shotgun work to a proper shotgun?

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Calmer than you are...

SSJTWIZTA

think one of these would work well for home defense?



comes in mossberg 500 or remington 870.

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First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

Slims

Is that a serious question or are you trying to bait us gun-nuts?


I have used an 870 with a 10 inch barrel and I am much better off with a pistol or with a full sized shotgun.

__________________
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

KirStang

Only if you like BDSM.

SSJTWIZTA

thats a 16 inch shotgun, overall length. i REALLY, REALLY want to fire one of those damn things. you know, just curious. i wasnt trying to "bait" anyone. just thought it could be nice for protecting the home, perhaps intimidation.

looks like recoil would be a bitch, though.


Kirstang, Ha. im no fan of that.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

Slims

Ok, here's why it is less than ideal.

Recoil, surprisingly isn't that big of an issue as your arms just move to absorb it (though the gun does jump around a lot and will greatly slow follow up shots).

What causes problems is the fact that you basically have to shoot it from the hip and it is very difficult to get accurate hits while shooting in that manner. It doesn't have a stock so you can't shoot it like a full sized shotgun, and you can't straighten both arms out like a pistol so you are forced, basically, to not aim. The addition of the forward pistol grip (folded up in the pic) further ensures you will have very little directional control over the weapon.

Second, I believe that gun has a 3 round capacity, which is far less than ideal for defense (though granted, most of the time the first round will end the fight).

Third, it requires both your hands to operate properly. You will have a hard time opening doors, pushing an attacker back to create space, etc.

__________________
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

SSJTWIZTA

i would only be using something like that only if i were sure someone were in my house. dont need to be a crack shot to hit someone from 10-15 feet with a shotgun no matter where you shoot it from.

if im shooting from the hip, creating space shouldnt be a problem.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

telekinetic

You watch too many movies. At 10-15 feet the shotgun's only advantage over a single slug weapon is damage, not spread.

edit: Ironically, the serbu super shorty has much wider spread than normal due to short barrel length, so it may redeem itself. I'm looking for exact numbers.

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twisted no more

Slims

If you haven't actually done it before be careful. I have seen plenty of 'good' shooters screwing around with breeching shotguns (10 inch barrels) unable to hit a man sized target reliably at about 21 ft. from the hip. Add to that the excitement, adrenaline, fear and urgency of a life or death encounter, darkness, inexperience (how many hundreds of practice rounds shooting from the hip do you really plan on shooting?) and confusion...you will miss more often than you think, even with a shotgun. Having a stock on a weapon greatly reduces this as it provides a stable platform and a natural gun-target alignment. Likewise with a pistol when you push that gun out in front of you you immediately have more directional control and a better alignment with the target than you will ever get shooting any weapon from the hip.

Here's what I meant by creating space: you are walking through your house when you get hit sideways by your attacker. Having both hands down at your waist and your shotgun pointed away from the intruder does not make a very good starting position for that type of encounter. At that moment you are unable to bring your weapon to bear against your attacker until you create enough distance between you and him to bring the shotgun around. And if it discharges during the struggle/or you miss you will likely be unable to chamber another round as you have to have both hands free.

__________________
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

SSJTWIZTA

or i shoot to much. (3 out of 5 pidgins from the hip. oh skeet skeet motherfucker, oh skeet skeet goddamn.)

ill take your word for it, slims. i wasnt actually planning on buying this thing, just thought id stir up some convo about short shottys. i dont have the money for this right now.

edit: it'd be a neat toy, though.

edit numbuh two: i usually grab my little smith and wesson or a simple mop handle to confront awkward home noises. on occasions (when i hear a noise that makes me go WTF) ill grab the 3 inch mag.

shot guns are my forte.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

telekinetic

Alright, difference being, you're not going to be flinging bird shot, and 'social' distances are much shorter than skeeting distances. 5" buckshot spread does not an accuracy-compensating wall of lead make.

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twisted no more

SSJTWIZTA

i could hit him...but thats not the point.

i just wanted to gather opinions on that short little fucker.

looks like i wont be purchasing one. (if i had the cash, that is)

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

MSD

If you're using .410, at least use buckshot or slugs. Pretty much the same as a .45, but more than one comes out at the same time.
Don't use a Title II gun for self defense unless you have a pile of $50k around for legal fees. You will at least be seeing a grand jury if not criminal prosecution.

Hanxter

thompson contender - .45 / .410 - either one will work

Plan9

Shotgun? Pfft... go for the Uzi 9mm. Gunshop dude in Terminator said it was perfect for home defense.

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Whatever you can carry.

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KirStang

For people who use Birdshot for the HD shotgun, don't.

Believer now---changing to buckshot - TheFiringLine Forums

X-ray tech reporting that birdshot to hand--no birdshot exited the person's palm. Consequently, using birdshot against a determined attacker = birdshot lodged in ribcage? I would not chance it.

Plan9

Wow, this thread is like the town bar whore... the one that we all keep coming back to for another round when we're lonely.

...

KirStang, doesn't take a genius to understand that birdshot isn't going to do any real damage to a human-sized target. I've been hit in the face by child-stealing-sized large insects while doing 90+ on my Sabre (*SLAP!*) and I'm sure it hurt about the same as birdshot. It's a simple mass + velocity equation.

Should you use it in your home defense shotgun? Probably not, but it also depends on your intent with the shot and overall philosophy.

Are you trying to scare / piss off an attacker or kill them? The boring old what you can get away with legally proud homicidal type argument aside... the escalation of force doesn't always have to be zero to kill in one trigger squeeze. It may be philosophy of many here because they have a wife and kids, but I'll play devil's advocate and suggest that a hit with anything will send 90% of attackers heading for the nearest door / window / prone position.

I'd rather scare the shit outta Mr. Burglar than kill him and deal with all the bullshit paperwork. Granted, I'll have that hot-hot plan to neutralize him should he not be sufficiently impressed by the muzzle end of a 12 gauge, but killing someone isn't something I'd want to do in my residence. Too messy.

I keep the Mossberg 590 (Rem 870, etc.) loaded with Sellier & Bellot rubber 00 buckshot for that reason. If an intruder can take that up close and still possesses the desire to keep coming, they're entitled to the next magical surprise in the mag tube: Federal copper-plated lead 00 buckshot.

...

Now, keep in mind that I'm a big operatactistrategery dummy... and I throw that out there so as to not come off as another gun-board Know-It-All (KIA).

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Halanna

I haven't had a chance to read through all the replies, so sorry if this has already been said.

I have a shotgun on my side of the bed (my husband has the handgun) because I wear contacts. I don't really have good vision without them.

In the event of an extreme emergency, I can see well enough to aim in the general direction and the spread pattern will hit something, that is the theory anyway.

Luckily we have never had to test this theory, but if you need vision correction, a shotgun and a handgun might both be good. There might not always be time to put on glasses, or if they get knocked off or broken and there certainly won't be time to put in contacts.

KirStang

Halanna, if I may reccomend some glasses and a light for your shotgun. I believe people have accidently shot loved ones in the dark before because they could not determine who was running around in the dark.

To add to that, Cromp, you have a point. Paperwork aside, some guy shot his wife with birdshot, thinking she was a burglar (men being men >_<), she ended up with a lot of fleshwounds, but survived. Had it been buckshot it would have probably severed her aorta.

Halanna

In the event of an extreme emergency, I know where my husband will be, where my son will be and they both know where I will be.

Because of my vision impairment, we have established a code word system, if my husband yells red front door, I can't shoot at the front door. If I hear "red right!" from him or my son, I know I can't shoot to my right.

If he yells green dining room, or green left, that means shoot toward the dining room or to my left. It's that simple.

My vision isn't that bad, but bad enough that I can't aim at center mass, I just probably won't be right, I just point and pull at "green".

This is in the event of a home invasion, which is most unlikely, thank goodness.

However, in the event of a home invasion, both my husband and my son are quite accurate shots, they are going to have to subdue them both before I have to actually shoot.

My job is standby, and shoot at shouted targets. This is obviously not ideal, it works for us. We live in the hurricane state, we are used to practice and "what to do in an emergency" scenarios.

I find it a little confusing and, ok, I'll admit, quite strange, that someone can shoot a loved one. Do they not know who is in their home and where they are? I just can't see that scenario. I'm sorry.