Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Interests > Tilted Technology


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-10-2004, 05:58 AM   #1 (permalink)
A Real American
 
Holo's Avatar
 
The Anti-Firefox Thread.

We have a ton of threads about FF in here and I used to be a major proponent of the Browser and still admire it for it's addons and functionality. However, I got extremely sick of it eating 60-120MB of RAM at all times. I mean lots of games dont' even use that much! I also hated opening linked attachments in vB forums as it would force to dl it manually and open it in Irfanview which was a pain. Sites are learning how to beat FF's popup blocker now, namely xdccspy. Javascript popups would take as long as 20 sec to load on a 1.8Ghz system. The browser is just not fast enough for me.


I cant' use "naked" IE for the same reasons I started using FF in the first place; It has more holes than swiss cheese. I dont' like the way Opera looks and feels at all. I tried Avant, which is an IE shell with numerous improvements over IE but it was crash-happy and still didn't have all I wanted. Then I tried SlimBrowser. It was everything Avant was and much more, plus it's much more stable. As I write this SBrowser is eating 28MB with 10 tabs open. FF would be eating about 80-120 with this many windows open and after closing those windows to one it still would hold aabout 60MB..



If you still like FF, great. Feature wise, I still think it's a great browser. I'm just sharing why I left the fold and wanted to make this thread a place for ppl who chose "none of the above" to have their say as to why they use the browser they choose.
__________________
I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince

Last edited by Holo; 09-10-2004 at 06:01 AM..
Holo is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 06:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
Devoted
 
Redlemon's Avatar
 
Donor
Location: New England
I'm still a Firefox fanboy, but as long as people are moving away from IE on Windows, I'm happy, for two reasons; (a) fewer people becoming spam zombies, and (b) a reduction in browser monoculture, which should increase standards-compliant website design.
Redlemon is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 06:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
Industrialist
 
Mondak's Avatar
 
Location: Southern California
Yeah - my comp is WAY slower with Firefox and it does totally eat ram. I like it though - so I just ordered another 512mb. I will be up to 1gb and that should take care of THAT!
__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Mondak is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 06:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
Upright
 
Location: NePA
Right now I have 4 FF windows open, 99,200k memory useage... I've never crashed this box, but have 2 gig of ram... I'll look at slimbrowser...
Knucklehead is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 07:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
beauty in the breakdown
 
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
*listens to the chirping crickets*
__________________
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato
sailor is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 07:30 AM   #6 (permalink)
Stop. Think. Question.
 
rubicon's Avatar
 
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Your points are valid but it's free software. I find it hard to complain about anything given away with no strings attached.
__________________
How you do anything is how you do everything.
rubicon is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 08:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Location: the hills of aquafina.
I'm with you on that one. I've stopped using firefox as of last night.

It's got a great feature set, but the actual functionality IS buggy and lacking. What really did FireFox in with me was the fact that I rarely get a completed file download. 9 times out of 10, the file will simply stop downloading, finish but be corrupt or unreadable, or simply not start downloading at all. And no, it's not the files or the server I'm pinging, as I can open up IE and nab the exact same files with no problems.

Too bad, as it does have an excellent feature set. But as rubicon states, it is free software, and in this world, you get what you pay for.
__________________
"The problem with quick and dirty, as some people have said, is that the dirty remains long after the quick has been forgotten" - Steve McConnell
cartmen34 is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 08:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
Knight of the Old Republic
 
Lasereth's Avatar
 
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
I agree with everything said. Firefox is a good looking browser, but some webpages simply don't load right with it. Internet Explorer is a target for adware creators because Microsoft made it. IE itself isn't a bad program. I love it. The only bad part is even after taking huge precausionary measures to prevent adware, spyware, and viruses, I still get them with IE. I wish a company would make a browser as functional and good-looking as IE. My IE looks better than Firefox if I set it right.

-Lasereth
__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert
Lasereth is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 08:13 AM   #9 (permalink)
A Real American
 
Holo's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubicon
Your points are valid but it's free software. I find it hard to complain about anything given away with no strings attached.

I agree somewhat with you. I mean, the Mozilla devs do make a good free product and they should be recognized for giving something for users to have as an alternative to naked IE. But the point of being an advanced user, IMO, is to get the best stable apps that don't eat tons of resources. No browser should use this much RAM unless you're viewing a 100 jpgs in a thread on the Titty Board.


Really cool things about slimbrowser:

It has the google toolbar like ff but it does one better: you can very easily create your own search engine plugins. I have a plugin for TFP's Search, one for [H] forums, one for the password thing (the mk.php thing) from Links Board, and I made one for IRCspy to replace the one from Mycroft in Firefox. I can search forums from any page and save a couple clicks (and page loads) for those forums in the process. Granted you can do this with a jscript bookmarklet but this is much easier to do.


Close a window or group by accident? go to Edit and Undo Last Close or undo last close all.


It has a little FTP client for uploads to your site with it's own little UI.


You can restore the last group of tabs that was closed if you had to quickly close your browser for whatever reason-It doesn't have to be bookmarked or from a crash like FF.

It supports Skins.

You can add trusted popups easily by Recover Popup in the toolbar and add it with a whitelist in a single click instead of having to go into options like in FF.

A built-in script pad that can edit HTML, Jscript, VBscript, or plain text for notes on the sidebar. You can copy and manipulate etext without having to switch to notepad and have the page you're copying right there.




You can hide windows that are open so your gf or roommates can't see a tab you want hidden if they get on your PC.

You can select Proxies without using Proxy Switch Toolbar like in FF.


These are just a few things I like most about this browser. There are much much more and it has almost everything FF does, and definitely everything important.



I also would would like to hear from others who choose the alternative to the alternative as well. I know being "anti-firefox" isn't a popular thing these days.
__________________
I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince
Holo is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 08:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Location: the hills of aquafina.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasereth
I agree with everything said. Firefox is a good looking browser, but some webpages simply don't load right with it. Internet Explorer is a target for adware creators because Microsoft made it. IE itself isn't a bad program. I love it. The only bad part is even after taking huge precausionary measures to prevent adware, spyware, and viruses, I still get them with IE. I wish a company would make a browser as functional and good-looking as IE. My IE looks better than Firefox if I set it right.

-Lasereth
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I take all the correct precautionary measures as well, but I'm still getting the occasional crap downloaded to my machine without my being warned. suckage!
__________________
"The problem with quick and dirty, as some people have said, is that the dirty remains long after the quick has been forgotten" - Steve McConnell
cartmen34 is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 10:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
Devoted
 
Redlemon's Avatar
 
Donor
Location: New England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasereth
Internet Explorer is a target for adware creators because Microsoft made it. IE itself isn't a bad program. I love it. The only bad part is even after taking huge precausionary measures to prevent adware, spyware, and viruses, I still get them with IE.
Microsoft tied the browser to the operating system, which makes it much easier for a malware writer to dump the spyware onto your system. Microsoft (historically) has always chosen features over security when a choice had to be made. They say that they are changing their philosophy, but we'll see. For that, I consider IE to be a bad program.

BTW, I get zero spyware on my Win box, with Firefox.
Redlemon is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 11:12 AM   #12 (permalink)
who?
 
phredgreen's Avatar
 
Location: the phoenix metro
okay, holo... i just downloaded slimbrowser, and so far it's fine, but i'm having smart tabbrowser extensions withdrawal and i'm wondering if there's any way to import your firefox bookmarks to slimbrowser... it imported my ie bookmarks automatically, but i've made signifigant changes to my bookmarks since i migrated from ie to firefox.
__________________
My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.
- Thomas Paine
phredgreen is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 01:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
Psycho
 
bacon_masta's Avatar
 
Location: i live in the state of denial
i'm really digging the slimbrowser, holo, even with 768 mb ram firefox was slowing me down, especially if i was installing or compiling anything. i'm keeping firefox and ie, if only for pages that won't load in one or the other, but i'm definitely using slimbrowser. thanks for the tip
bacon_masta is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 02:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: Wales, UK, Europe, Earth, Milky Way, Universe
I'm going to sit on the fence about this and just say whats on my mind. It isnt a big deal after all.

Slimbrowser is just a wrapper for the main IE object so whatever IE doesnt support in the way of w3c standards, slimbrowser isnt going to support either. For example, after just 30 seconds of using slimbrowser i found it doesnt support the "border-spacing" standard CSS property just like IE. Chances are, slimbrowser probably has any vulnerabilities that IE has too. I guess time will tell. I wont be using this post as a soap box for my opinions of MS's lazy and bratish approach web standards.

Firefox has only been in development for about 2 years, its already matured enough to be compared with IE and its likely going to lose all of the negative issues that you nice people are talking about in future versions. Its only on version 0.9.x at the moment after all. What i'm saying is, dont lock it out of your minds totally just because you're having trouble with the current version.

As firefox stands at the moment in its current version, yes i believe it has a few faults and yes it needs a smaller memory footprint and yes the download manager is a bit pointless. However, i'm sticking with it because it sticks to the standards and is the best browser for my personal needs.
__________________
There are only two industries that refer to their customers as "users". - Edward Tufte
welshbyte is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 03:18 PM   #15 (permalink)
Industrialist
 
Mondak's Avatar
 
Location: Southern California
To add to my previous comment, I am going to stick with FF and hope that it gets better on keeping memory clean / use of system resources. The neato thing about it is that you / we are not the only ones who see these types of problems. In this case, something can be done about it.

If enough people think FF is bloatware or a resource hog, then the open source comunity has the chance to respond. That is a pretty cool feeling. It is too bad our elected officials are not "open source". . .
__________________
All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

Mondak is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 05:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
Insane
 
thriolith's Avatar
 
Location: Toronto
I dunno why your Firefox is taking up so much resources... I have 4 windows up, one with 6 tabs. It's only using about 32 megs. Anyways, it's much better than IE, so it's all good.
__________________
- Thriolith
thriolith is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 06:19 PM   #17 (permalink)
A Real American
 
Holo's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phredgreen
okay, holo... i just downloaded slimbrowser, and so far it's fine, but i'm having smart tabbrowser extensions withdrawal and i'm wondering if there's any way to import your firefox bookmarks to slimbrowser... it imported my ie bookmarks automatically, but i've made signifigant changes to my bookmarks since i migrated from ie to firefox.

Just go to Favorites-Import and it has a popup prompting you for your Bookmarks.html file that you should find in your Firefox Aplication Data under Docs and Settings.

@Welshbyte: You are right about SB being a wrapper,just as Avant is...however it gives you at least 90% of the functionality of FF as far as extensions and popup blocking plus it has the ability to block banners, Flash, and easily disable Active X unlike IE. It's like IE Done Right IMO. I really don't care about standards. I mean I am keeping FF on my box in case something really looks screwy in IE but I usually find the reverse to be true since IE is so ubiquitous.


IE has always been faster than FF. Go to the Titty Board and open one of those big ass jpg threads and try super fast scrolling with FF. It anemically jerks about and trudges rather slowly in the direction you point it. IE screams thru it like it's nothing. When I minimize SB it drops RAM usage right down to 3MB even with 13 tabs open. FF starts up eating 45+ MB and as soon as you start opening tabs it just keeps chowing down on RAM. You close all but one tab in FF and it holds the 60MB and doesn't let go. Right now SB is eating 15 MB typing this post with 12 other tabs in use. It has several security options IE doesn't have or does have but are difficult to initialize.


Don't get me wrong, I called this thread Anti-Firefox as a critique more than a slam. I'll keep FF on my PC and try new updates to see if they've fixed things, and I may need Magpie occasionally which at present SB doesn't have something comparable. I'm glad ppl gave SB a try, but I still would like to hear from ppl who use another browser as well, and the resource usage of those browsers.
__________________
I happen to like the words "fuck", "cock", "pussy", "tits", "cunt", "twat", "shit" and even "bitch". As long as I am not using them to describe you, don't go telling me whether or not I can/should use them...that is, if you want me to continue refraining from using them to describe you. ~Prince
Holo is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 06:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
Addict
 
Silverbrain's Avatar
 
Location: Nor Cal
This slimbrowser program sure does look like Maxthon (formally MyIE2) hell even the homepage looks like myie's former homepage...or perhaps its vice versa...in any case Ive been using Maxthon for quite a while, and it is better then firefox imo. Tabbed browsing in good stuffs.

http://www.maxthon.com/en/index.htm
__________________
Over Thinking, Over Analyzing
Seperates the Body from the Mind - MJK
Silverbrain is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 07:53 PM   #19 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Location: Toronto
Hmm...this slimbrowser is only available in windows, so I guess I won't be trying that anytime soon.
__________________
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(115),10);'
Xirax is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 08:20 PM   #20 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Yea I am pissed off at firefox memory usage as well. I have a gig of ram in my box and for most everything it is fine but firefox kills it. Especially when it comes to having pictures open it will grow to over 300mb of memory usage. When it gets high it can then not refresh the current page like it will just freeze the image but when you scroll links and some things come back, kinda hard to explain unless you have seen it.

Anyways I do not have much hope for it to be fixed. I used to use Mozilla, the standealone, before firefox came out and I experienced the same things. I will never go back to IE as I loved the tabbed browsing mouse gestures, etc but I am not at all happy with firefox.
tronims is offline  
Old 09-10-2004, 09:38 PM   #21 (permalink)
Go Cardinals
 
soccerchamp76's Avatar
 
Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati
Memory is a problem for the program, just glad I got 1 gig.

With all the features, I will take that problem.
__________________
Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.
soccerchamp76 is offline  
Old 09-12-2004, 10:01 AM   #22 (permalink)
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?
 
Speed_Gibson's Avatar
 
Location: right here of course
FireFox is a good backup for me, but Opera 7.5 wins every time for me on features, speed, looks, and basically everything else. IE has been ripped out but is still available on the win2k crashbox if some evil site or webmaster makes me use that POS.
__________________
Started talking to yourself I see.
Yes, it's the only way I can be certain of an intelligent conversation.

Black Adder
Speed_Gibson is offline  
Old 09-12-2004, 11:30 AM   #23 (permalink)
Mencken
 
Scipio's Avatar
 
Location: College
I don't see the memory problem. I had 3 windows and a combined 10 tabs open, with content rich sites like foxnews loaded, and it only used 50 megs. Where do you guys get "60-120 mb at all times?"

FF ain't perfect, but it's pretty damn close.
__________________
"Erections lasting more than 4 hours, though rare, require immediate medical attention."
Scipio is offline  
Old 09-12-2004, 03:47 PM   #24 (permalink)
Junkie
 
First of all, this is a really interesting thread.

One of things people should be aware of when discussing Firefox and its memory usage is that is has to "load" a lot of the functionality each time it runs. IE, being part of the OS, already relies on some of the code that is preloaded each time Windows starts.

In other words, the reason IE uses less memory is that a lot of it is already used in background services (like services.exe) etc. This is another reason IE loads so much quicker than FF.

This is what I've heard from those more technically familiar with the Win32 environment than me.

I stopped using FF, as I simply didn't like the download manager, and I went back to Opera. I'm amazed no one here has mentioned it yet. But Opera has its problems too, just like FF.

I'll check out this slimbrowser. Thanks for the suggestion.


Mr Mephisto
Mephisto2 is offline  
Old 09-12-2004, 04:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
Upright
 
Location: Ominous, I'm In Us
As with a lot of software, I think the existence (or lack thereof) of problem with Firefox, is system dependant. Not that those who have problems with FF don't have fine systems. It's just that for whatever reason, there are some programs that work great on some systems and blow on others. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones where FF is concerned. I've had no problems with it; resources or otherwise.

As an example, I once had a small application that added the day and date to the clock in the system tray. I believe I was running Win98 at the time. Anyway, I had used the program forever, with no problems, but when I gave a copy to a buddy of mine (also running Win98), it completely screwed his system.

At any rate, having tried a number of browsers (Netscape, Mozilla, Slimbrowser, Opera, IE, FF, and probably a couple of others) I always recommend FF. For me, it is simply the best browser out there and it's still only in development.

In light of the criticisms in this thread, I would say give FF a try and if you do have problems, well, try something else. I don't believe, however, that everyone will experience the same problems discussed here.
Obtuse is offline  
Old 09-12-2004, 05:15 PM   #26 (permalink)
Rawr!
 
skier's Avatar
 
Location: Edmontania
I'm wondering what's different with my firefox program vs yours in regards to RAM usage. As an experiment I opened 30 tabs and chatzilla but i'm only at 100K memory used, and my system hasn't slowed in the least. I'm running 2.5 Ghz, 512 RAM. The tabbar is so crowded I can only see icons :P
Edit: 100 tabs = 175K

Personally I'm having a lot of fun with firefox, no problems except that occasionally when I open a movie link it'll open it as Html.
__________________
"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim
skier is offline  
Old 09-12-2004, 05:55 PM   #27 (permalink)
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?
 
Speed_Gibson's Avatar
 
Location: right here of course
two small things that ensure that FF is relegated to backup for me are the clunkier download manager that is still falling short compared to Opera - no desire to use a 3rd party program for that now again - and the clunky mouse gestures. I could spend more time with the gestures extensions and this may be one reason but so far I have yet to see them work exactly like the default 'out of the box' Opera settings that are indispensable to me for any browsing.
but that is just my opinion, if people are willing to at least give the more viable (IMO) Presto and Gecko based options a solid try before sticking with IE then I have no problem with that. Never have been a diehard fanatic for browsers; that always has seemed pointless to me.
__________________
Started talking to yourself I see.
Yes, it's the only way I can be certain of an intelligent conversation.

Black Adder
Speed_Gibson is offline  
Old 09-12-2004, 06:08 PM   #28 (permalink)
Psycho
 
shadowalker's Avatar
 
Location: Firefox yourself and change the world!
Not a fan of Foxfire, but i do like Thunderbird for my mail. Thanks for the link to slimbrower, i'm going to check it out now.
__________________
I'll make ya famous!
shadowalker is offline  
Old 09-12-2004, 09:44 PM   #29 (permalink)
Über-Rookie
 
Location: No longer, D.C
I absolutely love Firefox.. However, I am generally in Linux and it doesn't seem that bad on my memory with that client, and in windows, I typically am only browsing the web if I have it open so I am not hurting for memory..

although, for the laptop, this might be a good switch, since the ram is a huge issue there (max 386mb... so ram is precious...my precious).. thanks for the link

and i agree with the previous post about any move away from the current big dog is a good idea in my opinion. Having everyone using one browser causes some web pages to target that one and then the other 10% that use something different just get screwed..

make webpages Lynx friendly!! *grin*
oblar is offline  
Old 09-13-2004, 04:36 PM   #30 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Location: Canada
Firefox ate my ram too so I use opera 27 pages open 80 meg ram used.
bannet is offline  
Old 09-13-2004, 05:57 PM   #31 (permalink)
Xepidemic
Guest
 
i dont know where you guys get your numbers but i just opened 35 tabs with 7 extensions installed and the my max memory used was 56mb. i love firefox!
 
Old 09-13-2004, 06:12 PM   #32 (permalink)
Insane
 
Location: Plano, TX
Firefox is great for me... and as far as memory usage goes... Firefox isn't eating up much RAM considering I've got the NFL.com Gamecenter, this page, another forum, and a class website open. My typical RAM usage from FF runs about 30-40mb, and for all the functionality and the fact that it doesn't have portions preloaded in the OS, that's pretty damn good. I'll take it any day over IE or any of its skins.
__________________
"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw
Shizukana is offline  
Old 09-13-2004, 07:33 PM   #33 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasereth
I agree with everything said. Firefox is a good looking browser, but some webpages simply don't load right with it. Internet Explorer is a target for adware creators because Microsoft made it. IE itself isn't a bad program. I love it. The only bad part is even after taking huge precausionary measures to prevent adware, spyware, and viruses, I still get them with IE. I wish a company would make a browser as functional and good-looking as IE. My IE looks better than Firefox if I set it right.

-Lasereth
Firefox and Opera have the same issues for me. I can't acess my online classes, I can't look at java, flash, streaming video or any of the stuff I can look at with IE. With IE I don't have to think about it, I don't have to configure plugins and I don't have to download an app everytime I want to watch a video.

Furthermore, neither Opera or Firefox load page layouts the same as IE. They have their own way of interpereting the HTML (or whatever) which is not neccesarily better than IE.

Firefox and Mozilla are only browsing companions for me. They are only useful when I know I'll be looking at dangerous content. In their current state they cannot replace IE.

I removed IE once... and I had to reinstall it. There's just too much things those other browsers won't load.
Eric640 is offline  
Old 09-13-2004, 08:04 PM   #34 (permalink)
Mine is an evil laugh
 
spindles's Avatar
 
Location: Sydney, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric640
Furthermore, neither Opera or Firefox load page layouts the same as IE. They have their own way of interpereting the HTML (or whatever) which is not neccesarily better than IE.
You mean the way it is supposed to look? IE is a good excuse for sloppy html programmers. M$ have decided (once again) to create their own standard. Unfortunately, in this case, one already existed
__________________
who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?
spindles is offline  
Old 09-14-2004, 12:42 PM   #35 (permalink)
Upright
 
Location: Montana
people saying they are not seeing the large ram usage, keep FF open for an entire day of browsing. You probly are not browsing enough to see the usage climb.

FF memory usage should be fixable, it appears to be they are not freeing memory. This is also probly why it crashes for me alot. Right now I have about 13 tabs open and Im using 87mb ram and 152mb vm.
spec1alk is offline  
 

Tags
antifirefox, thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:00 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360