Bratwurst

OK sounds good - I was wondering how those small shuttle machines could power a decent card and stuff with such puny psu's. But I guess it isn't that much of an issue?

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Lasereth

Nope, it should be fine.

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RickB

I'm looking to upgrade my son's video card from a FX5200 to something newer but price is a consideration. What do you think about the Rosewill RW62A-256 GeForce 6200A 256MB 64-bit DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card for $69.99 at Newegg?

The motherboard is a MSI K7T Turbo2 with a 300W PS. I'm partial to the nVidia line as I've never had any trouble with them and the particular games that will be run on the computer tend to prefer Geforce cards.

Suave

That looks like a good choice. I wouldn't recommend anything too good, because a 300W PSU won't support much in the way of new cards (general rule of thumb nowadays seems to be 380W+).

Lasereth: some additions to consider?
GeForce 6800 GS
GeForce 7800 GS
Radeon X1600 XT
Radeon X800 GTO

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alpha phi

OK I was at Best Buy today
looking at video cards
all the PCI cards said they
required a PCI-2 slot......
does that mean PCI express?
will it work in a PCI slot?
The card I was after was a standard PCI ATI card
they had advertised for $79...sold out...
What would be a good card for me?
I don't have a AGP slot or PCI express
Just Plain old PCI
And $115 in Best buy gift cards

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Lasereth

I have no experience in PCI videocards. I do know that their performance is bottlenecked by the actual slot, so they're nowhere nearly as powerful as AGP cards. Sorry!! No reviewers ever benchmark PCI cards. As for PCI-2...I assume they mean PCI-E, but I can't be positive considering I've never even heard of it.

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Lasereth

Still sorry about the lack of updates guys. I've been really busy on subjects that aren't good excuses, but if I take the time to update the guide I'll lose tons of work I've put into what I'm doing. Expect a mass update in about two weeks.

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Krycheck

Well now that my X800 Pro is shit I'll be looking to buy another card. Since I have to stick to AGP I may opt for another X800 or look at something better. I paid $489 for my card new a little over a year ago and now they run about $269. FEAR really pushed it to the limit so I'm thinking of getting a better card if I can. I just wish I could upgrade to a PCI-E card but I don't want to have to upgrade mobo/cpu/memory again

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Mbnfc

$269 for a pro? how about $200 after rebate for an x850xt! top of the line AGP card. http://www.microcenter.com/byos/byos...duct_id=217999

and if your pro is only a little over a year old, why dont u RMA it? out of warranty?

Krycheck

wow..hmmm

Well it's out of warranty. Let's just say a little mouse used my pc as a condo for a nite..

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docbungle

PCI 2 is just tech-term for the version of PCI slot that is required on the motherboard in order for the video card to work. Kind of like when patches are released for video games: v1.0, v1.2, v1.3, v3, etc.....For the dollar range you're looking at, you shouldn't run into any problems with any of those cards. PCI 2 does NOT mean PCI Express. It just means regular PCI.

For instance, regular PCI slots started out somewhere around, let's say, 1.0. Now, they're up to, let's say, 3.0. The PCI slot is still just a PCI slot, it's just that the technology has improved from 1.0 to 3.0.

PCI-Express is a whole different animal.

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alpha phi

Awesome! thanks a bunch.

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Jimellow

My nVidia GeForce2 Ultra (64 MB) just died on me, and as a result I am going to need a new video card. I don't use my PC for gaming anymore, as it is old and dated, but I would like a reasonably priced (cheaper = better) graphics card that will allow me to use large resolutions at 32 bit.. 1280 x 1024 at 32 bit would be nice.. I likely won't use that such a high resolution, but it's nice to be able to.

The card won't be used for gaming, but instead surfing the Internet, word processing, basic (non-requirement) gaming, and watching movies.. Seeing that I consider my PC to be on it's last legs, I'd prefer not to spend a lot.

The computer is a Dell Pentium 3 (866 MHz, 256 MB Ram) and was purchased in late 2000.

Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks!

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djflish

The system requirements for Battlefield 2 says it need a graphics card that can handle '1.4 shaders'. How can I find out how many shaders a card can handle? I've checked the official sites, but kind find any info about shaders in the card specs.

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Bossnass

My system is not performing how I want it to running Oblivion. I believe that my 6600GT is the bottleneck. Most economical upgrade? I'm looking at a 6800GS, which appears to have many desireable features from the 7XXX series at half the price. Any advice?

Lasereth

The 6800 GS is basically a 6800 GT for a smaller pricetag. My brother plays Oblivion on his 6800 GT and it runs great. I really don't think a 6600 GT would be giving you that much trouble in Oblivion unless you have the settings maxed out though. Do you have at least 1 GB of RAM and a nice CPU?

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Bossnass

The settings aren't quite maxed out. I've found it runs ok windowed (in a window the size of my desktop), but gets choppy on fullscreen. I have a 3700+Athlon64 and 2 gigs of ram.

Lasereth

Just made a HUUUGE upgrade to the guide. I narrowed down some of the categories due to the newer generation of cards that came out. There's some truly amazing deals out there right now like the Radeon X800 GTO, Radeon X850 XT, GeForce 7600 GT, etc. Gamers can now get REALLY nice videocards for a fraction of the price that they were a couple of years ago. Hell, upper-midrange cards are debuting for much less than usual now. If you've been wanting to upgrade your videocard, now's the time to do it.

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Silverbrain

Lasereth, nice upgrade to the guide, really hit the spot for me (struggling with Oblivion with my 5900xt agp)

I noticed the cards you recommended in the pricerange are the pci-e cards. As I'm in an agp point at this time, I would really like to spend under 200 for an agp upgrade to tie me over until I'm ready to do the good upgrade to a new board.

Currenty have 1GB Low latency Corsair, and a 3500 AMD 64. Running Oblivion, I can watch my processor hardly ever spurt over 60% usage, so I know the bottleneck is the video card.

My current card = 8 pipes, 390/700 clocked.

Some ideas found on newegg....

AGP x800 gto = $155 (12 pipes, 475/900)
x1600pro = $119 (12 pipes, 500/800) (refirb under 100 bucks)
X800XL = $179 (16 pipes, 400/?? clocked)
gf 6800 = $174 (12 pipes, 325/540)
gf 6800gs = $180 (12 pipes, 350/1000)

Any quick thoughts or recomendations for the aged agp system?

Thanks!

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Lasereth

I'd go with the X800 GTO, X800 XL, or the 6800 GS.

__________________
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Mondak

So big "L" I have another angle for ya.

I want to spend about 300 bucks for a card when I build my new machine. I really have not been gaming in the last 2+ years or so, but I want a beast underneath so I can if I want to. Here is what I don't want: a bunch of noise.

I saw some 6600GTs that have passive cooling on them that I suppose were designed for home theatre use. I was thinking about setting them up in SLI for my machine, but then saw on Tom's VGA charts that a single 7800GT would blow it away and still be under $300.

So how about this: what is the fastest thing that I can do with roughly $300 (PCI-E) that does not involve me watercooling (I'll eff it up) or anything ridiculous like that? I am open to cards with fans, and I would sacrifice some speed for quiet. I just don't want to have some POS setup that sucks ass 5 minutes after I bought it. If it helps, I am getting a new case at the same time and I will spend up to $200 on that (although i would prefer to spend nearer to $100). I am doing this thing totally over here.

Good luck - and thanks

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Lasereth

I don't know anything about quiet videocards because it's a subject not typically benchmarked. If I were in your position, I'd get a nice Lian-LI case for about $150 so your PC will be extra quiet. You can also buy sound-dampening material to put in the case. Making your PC quiet with a nice case is easier than buying a powerful videocard and attempting to make it quiet.

__________________
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Mondak

Well that seems logical. I will go for it. Thanks a lot.

__________________
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First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

newtx

A very needed thread. Clarifies a confusing confusing subject. Thanks a ton.

Dilbert1234567

For quiet cards, you can get different coolers, I have a ZALMAN VF700-CU 2 Ball VGA COOLER on my 6800 ultra, I run it on low for general use, but have to crank it to high for games, its silent when its on low and quiet on high.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118117

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Cynthetiq

I just got a new rig and put in an ASUS 7900GT and it rocks.... I wanted the 7950GTX but the price point was just too high but instead I ended up getting a 2nd LCD so 2 19" and it runs WoW at 55-60FPS solo and 35-40FPS during 40 man MC runs.

Tom's Hardware VGA comparo helped alot

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Crack

http://www.bit-tech.net/preview/hard...gt_570m/1.html

Passive cooling on a XFX GeForce 7950 GT 570M Extreme = no sound at all from the video card. gg

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asudevil83

didnt think passive cooling was possible with anything higher than the 7600gt.

both gigabyte and asus make passively cooled versions of the 7600gt

insaneone

this list doesn't include the newest fastest cards, and the prices are a little old, but it is one i've been compiling as to where each card falls in the food chain:


(Nvid 7300 GS only 16 watts)

**best price/performance**
nVid 7600 GT ($210)
ATI X1600 XT ($170)
nVid 6600 GT ($140)
(MSI & BFG = quiet)
**best price/performance**

-------------------------------------------

the faster at top:

ATI X800 Pro ~$250 ($150 refurb)
ATI 9950 ultra (N/A)
nVid 6800 LE/XT (LE=slower)($150,$300)
ATI 9800 XT(~$185) (6600GT is above this)
ATI X700 PRO($125)
nVid 5900U/5950 Ultra($250)
ATI 9800 PRO(~$130)
=ATI 9700 pro
=ATI 9800 ($90??)
=nVid 5900/5950
ATI 9700 ($110)
ATI X700 (NOT pro)???
ATI X1300 PRO($80-95)???
nVid 6600 ($100)
nVid 5800 ultra
nVid 5700 Ultra (N/A)
ATI 9500 Pro ($95 used)
(yes it beats 9600pro!)
?nVid GF4 Ti 4200(equal to a 9500 pro?)???
=nVid 5600 Ultra
=ATI X600 PRO/XT ($95-114)
=ATI 9600 pro/XT ($100)
nVid 5800
ATI 9800 SE(128 bit)
nVid 5700/5750
nVid 6200 non-tc (under $100!)
=nVid 5600
=ATI 9500/9550/9600
ATI X300 non-Hypermem???
nVid 5700 LE (MINE)
nVid GF4 Ti 4600
nVid 5200 ULTRA

-------------------------------------------

=nVid 5600 XT (XT=slower)
=ATI 9600 SE
nVid 5200/5500 ($50 PCI)
nVid PCX 5300
nVid 6200 Turbocache
ATI 9200 SE
ATI X300 SE Hypermemory

integrated graphics chipsets:
-- Intel GMA950
-- nVidia 6100/6150
-- ATI xpress 200


(Nvid 7300 GS only 16 watts!)

Lasereth

Pretty much totally redid the entire price range guide. All ratios are taken from Tom's Hardware benchmarking and NewEgg.com's prices. NewEgg has proven to consumers over the years that it is the pinnacle of computer hardware resellers due to its incredible customer service and return policies, hence me using it over other sites. Tom's Hardware's interactive VGA charts make my life a lot easier with this guide, so I'd like to thank them also.

*EDIT*

I apologize for not updating the guide for so long, but I was quite annoyed at the lack of huge boosts in the videocard industry so I waited before I made a big update. Also, no offense to the above poster, but most of the information and ranking in that list is erroneous and will lead people to buy videocards which are a complete ripoff. Please refer to my guide for the best deals now that it is updated. Thanks!

__________________
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Cynthetiq

I don't recall where I found this matrix, but this really solidified for me what card vs. price point to buy when it came to the nvidia cards. If someone can find one for the ATIs it would totally rock.

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laconic1

Thanks for the update Lasereth. I currently have a Radeon 9000 card that I want to upgrade. Since I still have AGP and don't plan on updating or replacing the rest of my system for at least another two years my options are somewhat limited it seems. Fanless operation is really important to me so that limits me even further. Would this card be a good choice, or is there something better? I'm currently running Vista beta, but I don't do much in the way of gaming or anything else graphics intensive. I just want to run Vista to its full potential, and Vista's Performance Information shows the graphics card is the only thing holding me back right now.

Lasereth

Wow, I'm surprised you have an option that nice. I'd go for it.

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Carno

I just bought two of these.

Good idea? Also, I only have a 450w power supply... is it going to be able to run both of those things okay?

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Lasereth

Can't recommend them man. The Radeon X1900 XT outperforms both of them in SLI mode and is cheaper, takes less power, and is only 1 card instead of 2. SLI isn't supported in all games, and 1 card is always supported. I'd RMA them and get something else. For that price, you can get better.

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Carno

Well, I should have mentioned that I have an irrational aversion to Radeon graphics cards.. But actually I looked into the X1900 XT but I couldn't find one for less than $250. There was one on Newegg for $259 but it was a GT.

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Lasereth

What price are you getting those 7600s at? NewEgg has them listed at $280 for 2 of them. That's more expensive than the X1900 XT at $250.

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Carno

Well, the rebate is $20 off for both of them, so that makes it $240 for both. $10 is extremely marginal, but I kinda prefer NVIDIA so that pushed them over the top.

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Lasereth

Is the $10 and your preference for nVIDIA really worth getting 2 cards that perform at 30% of the 1900 XT's power in some cases though? In no tests did they outperform the X1900 XT, and in many cases, the XT beat them by almost 100%. On average, the double 7600 GTs in SLI mode perform at about 50%-75% of the X1900 XT. I'm not h8ing on your decision, just giving the facts.

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Cynthetiq

in the 3Dmarks from Tom's Hardware, the GT in SLI mode beats the X1900XT in all the ones that I had seen.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphi...=548&chart=224

looking that the different applications like HalfLife, Rise of Nations, it's a slight beat by the 1900 but not by much.

I am not an ATI fan, based on my experience with them in their desktop chipsets for basic drivers, which is why my choice went to Nvidia and will continue down that path, the same works for intel CPUs.

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